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For some, like Germany, the EU is great. Their export-oriented economy coupled with control of the ECB and the Euro currency means they get to export their good

For some, like Germany, the EU is great. Their export-oriented economy coupled with control of the ECB and the Euro currency means they get to export their goods to the entire continent without tariffs. Someone like Greece/Portugal, who are not manufacturing/export economies, in the meantime get to enjoy endless debt and with no control to print and devalue their own currency, are essentially fucked. Forever. Is the EU "great" for them? I dunno. Portugal is in trouble, so is Italy. The upcoming Italian banking center crisis, which is pretty much inevitable, will reset any economic gains from the last 5 years quite nicely. France is doing okay-ish. Definitely second fiddle to Germany though. Speaking of Germany. Their bone-headed fear of - gasp - inflation and austerity measures are dividing Europe, not to mention Merkel's idiotic handling of the refugee crisis. Euro-scepticism is growing. Fully 1/3 of Germans are now Euro-sceptics. Let that sink in for a moment. Right-wing nationalism is increasing. Marie Le Pen and Geert Wilders are growing in popularity. If that's not a failure of Euro-liberal policies, I don't know what is. I don't think what happened yesterday is great. But portraying the EU experiment (I call it that since it still might fail) as some kind of giant happy family and the UK being the unhappy, ungrateful child is grossly inaccurate. The EU project has been in trouble and under pressure for a while now. I'm 100% convinced this is only the first domino to fall.

aioprisan 10y ago
Sorry, but if your country's economy is not producing anything worth exporting and, you know, selling to others in exchange for money and jobs being created by that growth, then there's nothing the EU or any other union can do for you - or is, for that matter, taking anything away.
- PopsiclePete 10y ago
  Greece actually was doing ok before the Euro even though they never produced anything of value. Tourism was basically enough. What they had, that they've now lost, is control of their own currency and sovereignty. And if you control your own currency, you can at least inflate your way out of some debt. At least you could do that, yes? And then - boom - your country just became a cheap tourist destination and cash starts flowing in. Now, the Greeks don't even have that. They're basically a collective EU servant class. Portugal is in the same boat. Italy is not too much better. That's your precious EU with a single-currency-under-German-control right there, Bud.
  - redtuesday 10y ago
    Have you a source for that? Would like to read up on that. I was always under the impression that Greece was already not that stable financial before entering the EU, and that they faked their economic data/audit with the help of a bank from the US to get into the EU (and EU politicans knowing about it but ignoring it).

aioprisan 10y ago

Sorry, but if your country's economy is not producing anything worth exporting and, you know, selling to others in exchange for money and jobs being created by that growth, then there's nothing the EU or any other union can do for you - or is, for that matter, taking anything away.

PopsiclePete 10y ago
Greece actually was doing ok before the Euro even though they never produced anything of value. Tourism was basically enough. What they had, that they've now lost, is control of their own currency and sovereignty. And if you control your own currency, you can at least inflate your way out of some debt. At least you could do that, yes? And then - boom - your country just became a cheap tourist destination and cash starts flowing in. Now, the Greeks don't even have that. They're basically a collective EU servant class. Portugal is in the same boat. Italy is not too much better. That's your precious EU with a single-currency-under-German-control right there, Bud.
- redtuesday 10y ago
  Have you a source for that? Would like to read up on that. I was always under the impression that Greece was already not that stable financial before entering the EU, and that they faked their economic data/audit with the help of a bank from the US to get into the EU (and EU politicans knowing about it but ignoring it).