4 ms·

Not going to happen, but I can see the sentiment. The Brexit vote was basically rural England telling London to shove it. "You wanted to be a cosmopolitan worl

Not going to happen, but I can see the sentiment. The Brexit vote was basically rural England telling London to shove it. "You wanted to be a cosmopolitan world city, but if us old people in the county don't like what we see, you can't have it." As an analogy, imagine if the people in California that voted for Proposition 8 got really upset about the Supreme Court overruling them, and didn't like all the non-native Californians immigrating to SF and LA, so they voted to secede.

k__ 10y ago
Yes. That's a big problem in all countries.
- fapjacks 10y ago
  It doesn't appear to be a problem in Singapore.
  - k__ 10y ago
    Because they are smart enough to be a "free city" in the first place?
SideburnsOfDoom 10y ago
So basically, rural England has long felt "you threw us under a bus, why should we help you". Now the feeling is mutual.
- tajen 10y ago
  If OP has a correct interpretation, that would be the best example of "why the richer must check that the poorer get a good part of the cake". Or why London should redistribute to rural England (or why Germany still funds the Greek economy).
  - SideburnsOfDoom 10y ago
    > Or why London should redistribute to rural England "London should" ? I know several people (Londoners) who would retort "London reliably votes for Labour. If they were in power there would be more redistribution, rural people don't vote for their own best interests, fools, etc." You could argue that labour has been "neoliberal" and not very good at this lately; you cannot say that the Conservatives have been better.
detritus 10y ago
Laterally, imagine a city over the horizon somewhere that doesn't give a hoot about your existence and is increasingly made up of people not from your own country, yet dictates ever-more fundamentally how you should live your life. Imagine that city is then in turn dictated-to by an even higher echelon of governing who you not only didn't empower to have a say in your affairs, but who don't even speak your own language or live in your country. Don't get me wrong, I live in London, and I didnt vote 'Leave' but I can fully understand the frustrations of a domestic populace whose voice in their own country is ever increasingly marginalised. Britain isn't the US - we're not (and I apologise in advance to the indigineous 'Indian' populations of North America) an 'immigrant country', despite what some people might suggest when they mention a few thousand Hugenots popping over for a few decades, hundreds of years ago. It's not in our culture so therefore who is right to say it should be?
- djsumdog 10y ago
  I also don't agree with this whole "It's the racist people in the country who voted cause they hate refugees" perspective either. The UK has been bad for the EU in general. Don't get me wrong, the EU has its share of supporting wars, supporting the US (and hence more wars), but the UK is a huge piece of that. It's part of the five eyes and the hegemony. The GPB has been horribly overvalued for years. It's bullshit the UK gets so much leverage in the EU, yet they refuse to adopt the currency and refuse to be part of the Schengen Area (which combined with their high GPB value ensures they make a shit-ton off long term backpackers; most countries get 120 days of tourism in the UK, but only 90 per 180 in the Schengen Area). It's a two year exit process. I'm sure the UK will make new work/visa agreements so many living abroad can still do so (and if not, well you have 2 years to see if you can get a visa), but I don't see it being reverse. It was a voter initiative. That's not something you can neg on. Scotland has talked about independence and it's often been viewed in the same light as the UK leaving the EU. But now that the later has been shown as possible, maybe it's time to finally break up this weird not-really-a-country country.
howlingfantods 10y ago
It's hard to fault the blue collar worker, who had dutifully voted Labour for decades, only to see Labour's neoliberalism collapse their local economies. This was basically a vote against the status quo. I think before people blame the voters for being misinformed or illogical, it's useful to question why our current economic and political system would push people towards fear, nationalism and xenophobia. Wealth inequality is probabaly a big part.
fixxer 10y ago
A less devisive explanation is that the UK is a big place with respect to beliefs and urbanism. It is completely reasonable for these different groups to disagree and the fact that they disagree on such easily explained features indicates to me the current government is not adequate to represent them. Not uncommon these days. The real problem arises when the needs of one side are only met through contributions from the other. That is complicated in this matter beyond the tax base of London. Should be interesting to see, at the very least. Personally, I think much is overblown with regard to economic impacts. This strikes me as more about identity politics. Again, not uncommon these days.

k__ 10y ago

Yes. That's a big problem in all countries.

fapjacks 10y ago
It doesn't appear to be a problem in Singapore.
- k__ 10y ago
  Because they are smart enough to be a "free city" in the first place?

SideburnsOfDoom 10y ago

So basically, rural England has long felt "you threw us under a bus, why should we help you". Now the feeling is mutual.

tajen 10y ago
If OP has a correct interpretation, that would be the best example of "why the richer must check that the poorer get a good part of the cake". Or why London should redistribute to rural England (or why Germany still funds the Greek economy).
- SideburnsOfDoom 10y ago
  > Or why London should redistribute to rural England "London should" ? I know several people (Londoners) who would retort "London reliably votes for Labour. If they were in power there would be more redistribution, rural people don't vote for their own best interests, fools, etc." You could argue that labour has been "neoliberal" and not very good at this lately; you cannot say that the Conservatives have been better.

detritus 10y ago

Laterally, imagine a city over the horizon somewhere that doesn't give a hoot about your existence and is increasingly made up of people not from your own country, yet dictates ever-more fundamentally how you should live your life. Imagine that city is then in turn dictated-to by an even higher echelon of governing who you not only didn't empower to have a say in your affairs, but who don't even speak your own language or live in your country. Don't get me wrong, I live in London, and I didnt vote 'Leave' but I can fully understand the frustrations of a domestic populace whose voice in their own country is ever increasingly marginalised. Britain isn't the US - we're not (and I apologise in advance to the indigineous 'Indian' populations of North America) an 'immigrant country', despite what some people might suggest when they mention a few thousand Hugenots popping over for a few decades, hundreds of years ago. It's not in our culture so therefore who is right to say it should be?

djsumdog 10y ago
I also don't agree with this whole "It's the racist people in the country who voted cause they hate refugees" perspective either. The UK has been bad for the EU in general. Don't get me wrong, the EU has its share of supporting wars, supporting the US (and hence more wars), but the UK is a huge piece of that. It's part of the five eyes and the hegemony. The GPB has been horribly overvalued for years. It's bullshit the UK gets so much leverage in the EU, yet they refuse to adopt the currency and refuse to be part of the Schengen Area (which combined with their high GPB value ensures they make a shit-ton off long term backpackers; most countries get 120 days of tourism in the UK, but only 90 per 180 in the Schengen Area). It's a two year exit process. I'm sure the UK will make new work/visa agreements so many living abroad can still do so (and if not, well you have 2 years to see if you can get a visa), but I don't see it being reverse. It was a voter initiative. That's not something you can neg on. Scotland has talked about independence and it's often been viewed in the same light as the UK leaving the EU. But now that the later has been shown as possible, maybe it's time to finally break up this weird not-really-a-country country.

howlingfantods 10y ago

It's hard to fault the blue collar worker, who had dutifully voted Labour for decades, only to see Labour's neoliberalism collapse their local economies. This was basically a vote against the status quo. I think before people blame the voters for being misinformed or illogical, it's useful to question why our current economic and political system would push people towards fear, nationalism and xenophobia. Wealth inequality is probabaly a big part.

fixxer 10y ago

A less devisive explanation is that the UK is a big place with respect to beliefs and urbanism. It is completely reasonable for these different groups to disagree and the fact that they disagree on such easily explained features indicates to me the current government is not adequate to represent them. Not uncommon these days. The real problem arises when the needs of one side are only met through contributions from the other. That is complicated in this matter beyond the tax base of London. Should be interesting to see, at the very least. Personally, I think much is overblown with regard to economic impacts. This strikes me as more about identity politics. Again, not uncommon these days.