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The UK is a much more divided society than Switzerland, in terms of the base level of income and education. The median income in Switzerland is double that of t

by dharma1 10y ago

The UK is a much more divided society than Switzerland, in terms of the base level of income and education. The median income in Switzerland is double that of the UK. Education is harder to compare, but you can't really expect the same level of discourse

dougmany 10y ago
I remember listening to a Ted talk where the speaker basically said, Get income inequality in check by whatever means and most of your problems go away.
- keithpeter 10y ago
  Get hold of a copy of Tony Judt's Ill fares the land. It has references to the correlation between inequality and many measures of 'problems' and tries to make the case for a causal link. Also explains philosophical background.
  - dougmany 10y ago
    Thank you for the recommendation. I will check it out.
- thomasahle 10y ago
  Certainly large amounts of some kind of equality is needed for a democracy to work.
- kamaal 10y ago
  Barely! The point in discussion, everyone likes equality in a way they having it, without they having to do anything about it. Or in other words making the rich poor in some way. Wasn't this what communism was all about. The real issue is equality in access to basic resources, which is by and large there already. Beyond this you need to let people win and lose on merit. You don't go around paying the same money for a haircut and brain surgery. That sort of equality doesn't work. Or to be more precise that's inequality of a very worst kind.
- flubert 10y ago
  >get income inequality in check by whatever means and most of your problems go away. Is that a cause or an effect though? As in, if your society evolved in such that "most problems" don't exist or aren't serious, then maybe as a consequence there isn't a lot of income disparity. But that doesn't necessarily hold in reverse. Making incomes equal by some method doesn't necessarily make the problems go away. https://philoofalexandria.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/reynolds-law/ https://philoofalexandria.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/reynolds-...
partiallypro 10y ago
It's also very hard for a poorer or even middle class immigrant to move to a place like Switzerland because the cost of living is so high. This creates an environment of unanimity you wouldn't see in more diverse cultures like the U.S. or the U.K. I think that's largely why Switzerland and the Scandinavian states get accolades from U.S. politicians (not as much division.) But they don't seem to get that the cultures are no where near as diverse and thus the politics are not anywhere near as divisive. That's not a criticism of diverse cultures, more of states living in relative unanimity being in a bubble.
- Inthenameofmine 10y ago
  Well, it's not like the swiss didn't have their fare share of ethnic issues in th past. Keep in mind that Switzerland is linguistically diverse. The difference is that because of direct democracy and every male being armed to the teeth, the government steps in and tries to reduce inequality. That way democracy works again. I mean, Jura used to have straight up ethnic riots.
  - anu_gupta 10y ago
    It's also not like your 'perfect' system wasn't financed by of the dirtiest money humanity has ever seen.
    - tosseraccount 10y ago
      Switzerland should be compared with their closest money ~handling~ competitors : Cayman Islands and the Channel Islands.
- jonwachob91 10y ago
  >that's largely why Switzerland and the Scandinavian states get accolades from U.S. politicians (not as much division.) I have to disagree with you. I have a lot of friends in Sweden that do nothing but complain about the immigration crisis they are facing. In fact one of my Swedish friends is here in the US now looking for a job because immigration has become such an issue in Sweden. She can name many immigrants she knows that are collecting more in welfare from the Swedish Government than what a Doctor makes... That's kinda fucked up if you ask me...
chimeracoder 10y ago
> The UK is a much more divided society than Switzerland, in terms of the base level of income and education. The median income in Switzerland is double that of the UK There's also the population size difference. London alone is larger than Switzerland, and that's not even all of England, let alone the whole UK.

by dharma1 10y ago

dougmany 10y ago

I remember listening to a Ted talk where the speaker basically said, Get income inequality in check by whatever means and most of your problems go away.

keithpeter 10y ago
Get hold of a copy of Tony Judt's Ill fares the land. It has references to the correlation between inequality and many measures of 'problems' and tries to make the case for a causal link. Also explains philosophical background.
- dougmany 10y ago
  Thank you for the recommendation. I will check it out.
thomasahle 10y ago
Certainly large amounts of some kind of equality is needed for a democracy to work.
kamaal 10y ago
Barely! The point in discussion, everyone likes equality in a way they having it, without they having to do anything about it. Or in other words making the rich poor in some way. Wasn't this what communism was all about. The real issue is equality in access to basic resources, which is by and large there already. Beyond this you need to let people win and lose on merit. You don't go around paying the same money for a haircut and brain surgery. That sort of equality doesn't work. Or to be more precise that's inequality of a very worst kind.
flubert 10y ago
>get income inequality in check by whatever means and most of your problems go away. Is that a cause or an effect though? As in, if your society evolved in such that "most problems" don't exist or aren't serious, then maybe as a consequence there isn't a lot of income disparity. But that doesn't necessarily hold in reverse. Making incomes equal by some method doesn't necessarily make the problems go away. https://philoofalexandria.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/reynolds-law/ https://philoofalexandria.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/reynolds-...

partiallypro 10y ago

It's also very hard for a poorer or even middle class immigrant to move to a place like Switzerland because the cost of living is so high. This creates an environment of unanimity you wouldn't see in more diverse cultures like the U.S. or the U.K. I think that's largely why Switzerland and the Scandinavian states get accolades from U.S. politicians (not as much division.) But they don't seem to get that the cultures are no where near as diverse and thus the politics are not anywhere near as divisive. That's not a criticism of diverse cultures, more of states living in relative unanimity being in a bubble.

Inthenameofmine 10y ago
Well, it's not like the swiss didn't have their fare share of ethnic issues in th past. Keep in mind that Switzerland is linguistically diverse. The difference is that because of direct democracy and every male being armed to the teeth, the government steps in and tries to reduce inequality. That way democracy works again. I mean, Jura used to have straight up ethnic riots.
- anu_gupta 10y ago
  It's also not like your 'perfect' system wasn't financed by of the dirtiest money humanity has ever seen.
  - tosseraccount 10y ago
    Switzerland should be compared with their closest money ~handling~ competitors : Cayman Islands and the Channel Islands.
jonwachob91 10y ago
>that's largely why Switzerland and the Scandinavian states get accolades from U.S. politicians (not as much division.) I have to disagree with you. I have a lot of friends in Sweden that do nothing but complain about the immigration crisis they are facing. In fact one of my Swedish friends is here in the US now looking for a job because immigration has become such an issue in Sweden. She can name many immigrants she knows that are collecting more in welfare from the Swedish Government than what a Doctor makes... That's kinda fucked up if you ask me...

chimeracoder 10y ago

> The UK is a much more divided society than Switzerland, in terms of the base level of income and education. The median income in Switzerland is double that of the UK There's also the population size difference. London alone is larger than Switzerland, and that's not even all of England, let alone the whole UK.