3 ms·

Honestly the India comparison is "slightly" exaggerated. British people could vote for European MPs. It's not like the UK was colonised by Europe. There is de

by rtpg 10y ago

Honestly the India comparison is "slightly" exaggerated. British people could vote for European MPs. It's not like the UK was colonised by Europe. There is devolution of sovereignty but you're gonna basically end up with that with the kind of trade pacts the EU demands anyways. Lots of symbolism involved of course.

rayiner 10y ago
I'm not saying it's literally as bad as colonization. But the symbolism is useful in showing that the focus on economic impacts is utterly misguided. Democracy isn't about optimizing for economics; it's about people deciding how they want to be governed. "Who should be able to tell me what to do?" That's a sacrosanct decision! It shouldn't be made by bureaucrats and intellectuals looking at the impact on currency prices.
- sgustard 10y ago
  The EU does not "govern" Britain in any meaningful sense, but I agree the "independence" strawman was a strong motivator for the separatist movement.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    It does: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV%3Al14522 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV%3... > The regulation is directly applicable in all EU countries. This means that it: > - applies immediately as the norm in all EU countries, without needing to be transposed into national law, > - creates rights and obligations for individuals and they can therefore invoke it directly before national courts, > - can be used as a reference by individuals in their relationship with other individuals, EU countries or EU authorities.
    - rtpg 10y ago
      While the regulations apply instantly, it's because national gov'ts passed laws saying "You need to follow european regulations". It's like how the FCC can change regulations regarding radio usage without passing a law. You're just delegating rule-making
- jacalata 10y ago
  The Leave campaign spent plenty of time telling people that the UK would be economically better off without the EU, £350m per week better off. Lots of bullshit about how if it weren't for the EU they could afford to support farmers and so on. People voted against it because they think immigrants are taking their jobs and EU regulations are driving British producers out of business.

by rtpg 10y ago

rayiner 10y ago

I'm not saying it's literally as bad as colonization. But the symbolism is useful in showing that the focus on economic impacts is utterly misguided. Democracy isn't about optimizing for economics; it's about people deciding how they want to be governed. "Who should be able to tell me what to do?" That's a sacrosanct decision! It shouldn't be made by bureaucrats and intellectuals looking at the impact on currency prices.

sgustard 10y ago
The EU does not "govern" Britain in any meaningful sense, but I agree the "independence" strawman was a strong motivator for the separatist movement.
- rayiner 10y ago
  It does: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV%3Al14522 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV%3... > The regulation is directly applicable in all EU countries. This means that it: > - applies immediately as the norm in all EU countries, without needing to be transposed into national law, > - creates rights and obligations for individuals and they can therefore invoke it directly before national courts, > - can be used as a reference by individuals in their relationship with other individuals, EU countries or EU authorities.
  - rtpg 10y ago
    While the regulations apply instantly, it's because national gov'ts passed laws saying "You need to follow european regulations". It's like how the FCC can change regulations regarding radio usage without passing a law. You're just delegating rule-making
jacalata 10y ago
The Leave campaign spent plenty of time telling people that the UK would be economically better off without the EU, £350m per week better off. Lots of bullshit about how if it weren't for the EU they could afford to support farmers and so on. People voted against it because they think immigrants are taking their jobs and EU regulations are driving British producers out of business.