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The Japanese Iced Coffee Method (2012)
- just_observing 10y agoI'm guessing the site author is (1) young and (2) has a large monitor because that font is far far too small.
- akovaski 10y agoThe font on the site is the same size as the font on hacker news (on my computer, Windows 10, chrome 51).
- thatswrong0 10y agoI'm all about the aero press into a glass of ice morning routine.
- morinted 10y agoWhich is why I don't see why this required 10 paragraphs to explain. I already brew iced coffee with 80 degree water through the AeroPress onto ice, then use cool water to make up the extra liquid if necessary. It's not the same as cold brew, but honestly nor should it be? Cold brew has a unique and enjoyable flavor. And what about the iced Americano? I guess you could consider that to be "Japanese method" as well. I'm not convinced.
- rattray 10y agoCan you expound on this method?
- thatswrong0 10y agoNormally you aeropress into a mug and then top it off with extra water as needed. Instead I aeropress into a glass of ice and the melted ice does the topping off.. which cools the coffee without watering it down too much.
- dvcc 10y agoI wasn't entirely convinced about why the coffee is better than the cold brew method. They both return different flavor sets, and taste at that point is completely subjective. A bad comparison would be like saying orange juice with pulp is scientifically better than orange juice without pulp.
- rubidium 10y agoI agree. You see the same thing with the "third wave" movement who espouse that very light roast is the "best" way to roast coffee. Light, medium and dark roast coffee is all perfectly fine ways of roasting, and all return different flavors for different beans. I prefer a roaster that has mastered the whole range.
- theseatoms 10y agoExcept light roasting preserves a higher caffeine content. So this method is objectively more efficient as a stimulant delivery mechanism.
- ahoy 10y agoThird wave coffee isn't soylent.
- wlesieutre 10y agoSoylent is an objectively more efficient beverage than third wave coffee because it is more nutrient complete! Or we could keep drinking coffee because it tastes good.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- lukeHeuer 10y agoThis is a myth. Roasting does not alter caffeine levels, as it is very heat stable. You might get more caffeine from a light roast if you are measuring your beans by volume. Light roasts expand less and are more dense than darker roasts, so you ultimately end up with more mass.
- Asooka 10y agoSummary: Brew normally, pour onto ice right away. Factor the volume of ice you use into the amount of coffee you use.
- morinted 10y agoThe Japanese Iced Coffee Method [2012] I thought this article was recent, but the date stamp reveals that it's four years old.
- Aelinsaar 10y agoCold brew tastes great. Hot brew tastes great. AeroPress tastes great. It's not a "Better", it's just a taste and situation thing. Sometimes I want Turkish coffee, sometimes I want a Greek Nescafe Frappe. It's not that one is better, although one is definitely better when I want that one.
- colinthompson 10y agoAgreed. Along the similar lines, I like a nice double cream brie, or a gruyere cheese. I also like a good slice of kraft american cheese. They all have their time and place.
- Aelinsaar 10y agoExactly. I don't want to melt a triple-creme on my nachos, or use American slices in my fondue.
- alexmingoia 10y agoWhat makes this process Japanese, exactly? I remember my parents doing it and nobody called it "Japanese Iced Coffee"
- Ftuuky 10y agoIt's not exclusive to the Japanese because I've been doing this my whole life.
- rattray 10y agoPresumably because it's very common in Japan, and not so common elsewhere. When I was in Japan (July 2015) I was surprised at how common iced coffee was – it felt like every street corner had a vending machine that sold (among other things) iced coffee. You can buy some of it here in SF, too, even at Wallgreens.
- slyn 10y agoFor what it's worth, brewing coffee directly over ice is extremely common in Vietnam as well.
- Fricken 10y agoI live in Edmonton, which has about 20 Vietnamese restaurants for every Japanese one. I've always known it to be Vietnamese iced coffee, and had no idea it's done in Japan as well. Although here the coffee conventionally drips over a mixture of ice and sweentened, condensed milk. I'm not sure if that's done elsewhere.
- zumu 10y agoAs a former barista who lived in Japan for 2 years, I firmly believe it is a matter of marketing.
- lukeHeuer 10y agoBecause we know the Japanese have been doing this since the 1600s. Kyoto is credited with the earliest recorded history of this brewing method.
- Moto7451 10y agoA local coffee shop does this and the results are excellent. As he suggests it maintains crisp aromatics. They use a special double walled vessel with ice separated from the coffee so it doesn't become watered down. The taste is very good. That said, so is that shop's cold brew, espresso, and pour overs. I think quality of ingredients and the attention to detail they pay is more important than the specific technique. To me this is more like getting your sourdough in a boule vs a baguette than a "stop drinking cold brew" experience.
- rattray 10y ago> I think quality of ingredients and the attention to detail they pay is more important than the specific technique. It might make sense to use the technique used by those who have that level of attention to detail and quality – presumably they would be less likely to use a sub-standard method.
- Moto7451 10y agoSure but my point is that they have multiple quality methods at their disposal. I'm not saying this is a bad method, I'm saying it's one of many good methods. I think as far as Coffee geekery goes, the Kyoto Coffee maker does an even better job than the linked method.
- dylanrw 10y agoIt's a different method of brewing. However the psuedoscience he uses to justify it as being 'better' is just touchy feely handwaving. If you enjoy the taste do it, if you don't, toddy brew on my fellow humans.
- saikit 10y agoRecently paid $5.50 for cold brew in Brooklyn. I think cold brew is an attempt by coffee shops to upsell what used to be regular coffee + ice. Taste wise, it's completely subjective. Value wise, nothing beats Starbucks double shot on ice. At home, I just aeropress into an ice cube. That way, I don't have a pitcher of cold brew concentrate that has to be used within a week.
- rattray 10y ago> I just aeropress into an ice cube Does aeropress allow you to use cold water?
- michael_h 10y agoI don't think that would come out right. If you use cold water, you'd have to replace heat with time and the entire point of the aeropress is to brew quickly, to avoid leeching the more bitter parts of the bean. My general approach is: ~2.5 scoops into the aeropress, fill with 165 F to just above the -2- marker, stir a few times, immediately press out over 20 seconds directly onto tumbler of ice.
- js2 10y agoI don't care what aeropress says about the right brewing temp (I think they claim 180° is ideal)... I find coffee to be sour if I don't brew it in my aeropress at 200°. (I make my iced coffee the same way and have been for years.) BTW, if you want your coffee slightly sweetened, you can put a tsp of sugar into the aeropress with the grinds and press the combination over ice. Saves needing a simple syrup or having the sugar not dissolve if you put it into the iced coffee afterwards. This is of course very similar to how vietnamese iced coffee is made. https://ineedcoffee.com/brew-vietnamese-coffee/ https://ineedcoffee.com/brew-vietnamese-coffee/
- lostlogin 10y agoReading this timings me of John Grubers theory that success requires three things. A clicky keyboard, over carbonated water and fussy coffee. Youre on track and im going to try your way too. Thanks.
- smoyer 10y agoI've been making Tokyo Ice-Drip Coffee for the last year - it has a slightly different taste than just mixing cold water and ice with the grounds, but I specifically like the lack of bitterness that would come about if the waxes in the coffee were melted by the heat and then extracted with the brew. In any case, the most important phrase in the story is "many of the iced coffee processes I liked the best brewed coffee hot". If you find the coffee you like best, brew it that way. I'd also recommend trying the other brew methods to make sure you're not stuck on a local optimum. And remember, you can brew coffee with water anywhere between freezing and boiling - the hotter the water, the more parafins you'll melt. If you're using a French Press (Cafetiere) and you think your coffee is too bitter at 200F, try 190F, then 180F, etc. And coffee will change flavor as it stands. Brewing hot onto ice as described in this article eliminates post-brewing flavor changes. If you cold brew your coffee and then let it stand at room temperature for several days, it won't taste like the freshly brewed coffee either. TLDR: Experiment until you find what you like.
- enraged_camel 10y ago>>but I specifically like the lack of bitterness that would come about if the waxes in the coffee were melted by the heat and then extracted with the brew. As a long time coffee drinker, I've realized that the bitterness is what wakes me up in the morning, rather than the caffeine in the coffee. The first sip of coffee is usually enough to bring me out of my morning stupor. It's probably some kind of conditioned response, which would probably be lacking with a non-bitter cold-brew. :P
- lostlogin 10y agoCan I recommend an espresso while you froth the milk for a flat white? That's an actually perfect morning combo which also uses your savage wake up technique.
- lazyant 10y agoJapanese? OK but this is common in Europe as well since I can remember (40 years)
- lukeHeuer 10y agoWe know they've been doing it since the 1600s. As far as written history goes, Kyoto is the furthest back we can trace this brew method.
- alwaysdoit 10y agoBrewing steaming hot coffee directly onto a glass carafe filled with ice looks like the perfect way to crack the carafe.
- saikit 10y agoAs other commenters noted, this is not a particularly Japanese method of ice coffee brewing. This Kyoto-style coffee tower, however, is: http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2014/03/japanese-style-slow-drip-coffee-cold-brewers-kyoto-yama-hario.html http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2014/03/japanese-style-slow-dr...
- cmccart 10y agoAdditionally, Serious Eats also did a cold-brew method comparison, which may be of interest: http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/whats-the-best-way-to-brew-iced-coffee.html http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/whats-the-best-way-to-bre...
- jschulenklopper 10y agoWhich is an excellent article with a nice surprise at the end. > With milk, the diner-style and cold brew tasted the best, whereas the Japanese style and immersion-over-ice were terrible, their bright flavors clashing with the creamy dairy, giving them the flavor of curdled milk.
- porsupah 10y agoRelatedly, the writer here offers a photo of some beautiful Japanese apparatus for cold brewing, a few paragraphs down. http://www.funraniumlabs.com/the-black-blood-of-the-earth/ http://www.funraniumlabs.com/the-black-blood-of-the-earth/ "Fast forward 14 years. An acquaintance working and living in Japan went on holiday and discovered a bar with this exceptionally beautiful rig for the preparation of Viennese Triple Cold Extraction Coffee. Upon sampling this, he felt that, and I quote, “I could see colors that weren’t in the visible spectrum, and could vibrate through walls.” I looked at this I said to myself, “Hey, you’ve got enough virgin laboratory glassware lying around the house that you could probably build something like that.” Probably several somethings, actually, but that’s beside the point."
- epalmer 10y agoThis twit podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAxZi7uess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAxZi7uess is with Phillip Broughton the gent that makes Black Blood of the Earth cold brewed coffee. Pretty interesting podcast. If I remember he is a physicist. For the record I have not tried black blood of the earth but would like to try it. It is just I am cheap.
- stcredzero 10y agoWhat about oxidation? Oxidation in food is generally bad news: oxygen has a habit of monkeying with oils to make them taste horrible, a phenomenon also known as rancidification. Couldn't the 2nd sentence simply be shortened to, "Oxygen has a habit of monkeying with oils to make them rancid." https://haveabit.com/feynman/knowing-the-name-of-something/ https://haveabit.com/feynman/knowing-the-name-of-something/
- jcyw 10y agoIm in seattle. Where can I find japanese coffee? :p
- rconti 10y agoTry a shakerato at Cafe Ladro. Not japanese coffee, but the shakerato is mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
- js2 10y agoMy first association with brewing directly over ice was when I ordered vietnamese iced coffee many years ago: https://ineedcoffee.com/brew-vietnamese-coffee/ https://ineedcoffee.com/brew-vietnamese-coffee/ I've been brewing my coffee directly over ice since I first got an aeropress... which is old enough to be the original blue plastic, whenever that was. It never occurred to me that this was some magical technique.
- rubyn00bie 10y agoThe writer of this article is really wrong to assume coffee aficionados don't drink cold brew, that's absolutely false. It's made even worse that he's conflating cold brew with iced coffee. They are very much not the same. I'm sure it's lovely but it's not cold brew. Cold brew is less acidic because it's not heated; it's also said to have a more "true" taste because it's not extracted with hot water. I have some stomach issues, one of which is an ulcer, and I am unable to drink hot coffee regularly as it tends to upset my stomach much more. Cold brew besides actually having a richer taste because of the slow brewing process actually hurts my tum tum less. ... Granted I also live in PDX, so I'm fairly sure (based on some comments) not everyone out there has had, or is actually being served, cold brew. Putting hot coffee on ice just doesn't even begin to compare. Update: hit post early.
- sopooneo 10y agoDoes anyone ever heat up cold-brew and drink it hot? I have no idea, but I wonder if it might have better flavor, but some people might want it hot.
- stephenhuey 10y agoI'm a cold brew fan and once in a blue moon I'll heat it up when I'm in the mood and it tastes fine.
- jockc 10y agoIt's how I usually drink my cold brew. Just mix with hot water.
- chao- 10y agoI couldn't agree more and also prefer cold brew to iced coffee. I have actually seen instances of the inverse name-swap as well: places which serve cold brew but label it as "iced coffee" because their customers/market have been exposed to iced coffee by various chains but wouldn't know what cold brew was (or bother to explore new options). Luckily the majority of independent coffee shops where I live (Houston) are particular about the distinction, and will pointedly list "cold brew" on their menus if it is such.
- cel1ne 10y agoThis is common in Europe. How else would you make cold coffee if not by first making proper coffee then cooling it. I just use my bialetti espresso maker and add ice cubes.
- Afton 10y agoCold-brew methods, or via directly cooling the coffee without adding water are the usual alternatives. The downside of both of the two methods is that they take significantly longer, so you can't quickly satisfy and urge for cold coffee.
- cr1895 10y agoYou make cold brew coffee without any heat at all by immersing grounds in water for a long time. There are different methods that produce either concentrate or ready-to-drink, and some chill in the fridge during the brew process and some leave it out on the counter. Lots of options, though the distinction is that none uses hot water.
- draw_down 10y agoI would love to try it! But I must disagree that cold brew is a lesser or incomplete version of coffee. Rather, it highlights different flavors than hot brewing methods do, and those flavors are wonderful in my opinion. When made well, cold brew is the caramelly, chocolaty coffee I always wanted. What doesn't get dissolved into the cold water is often the more sour (or "bright" if you're feeling charitable) flavors. (I have had the stale, flat kind of cold brew the author mentions. It sucks. I have also had plenty of terrible hot coffee.)
- spraak 10y agoThat's a great point. Hasn't the author ever had terrible hot coffee, so why not terrible cold brew too? Some of the other posts in this thread point out that some beans are better for cold brew than others. And I agree with you that I've had really good cold brew and really enjoy it's aroma and taste.
- fractallyte 10y agoThe sole source in the UK: http://www.theoriginaldutch.com/ http://www.theoriginaldutch.com/ The founder is a pal of mine! He exhibited recently at the Caffe Culture Show in Olympia, London. In a huge hall filled with all the complex paraphernalia of coffee-brewing and consumption, his stand was situated at the periphery, in the artisan foods section. Interestingly, with all the bustle (and hustle ;-) of the main venue, this section - arguably, the most interesting - had relatively light traffic. But a few savvy people came by to sample this unique coffee (and other awesome products in the vicinity), including one prominent coffee critic/blogger. His opinion: a very interesting flavor profile that was too earthy; not enough acidity. My friend patiently explained that this is the intention: to preserve the natural 'sweetness' of the bean. The critic wasn't swayed, but I was delighted: at least his product had elicited a strong reaction! Most significantly, many people mistakenly equated 'cold brew' with 'cold drip'. Huge difference! Visitors tended to love it. Some came back for a second and third sampling. We gave away a lot of bottles...
- psb217 10y agoThere's a minor typo ("than" is written as "that") in the third block of main-body text on the linked landing page.
- fractallyte 10y agoYes, I just mentioned it to him too! Thanks.
- ajharrison 10y agoI've been doing this forever. Brew from Aeropress right into a glass full of ice, top it off with milk. Delicious.
- bbarn 10y agoYep. This is what I do. I have a couple of large plastic Tervis glasses that work great for this, and as a bonus if I've put too little ice in or heated the water too much I can adjust on the fly by seeing through it.
- j10sanders 10y agoEven better: I aeropress onto a cocktail shaker with ice, then shake the hell out of it. The coffee get's very cold much faster, and I just throw out the ice and sometimes put nice new cubes in at the end. The coffee comes out a bit frothy and tastes better than any variation I've bought.
- davidcelis 10y agothe first time i tried the japanese iced coffee method, i ended up with a cup of coffee that had such a strong bitter, chemical taste that i was sure i must have been drinking poison. i later realized it was probably my ice cubes, which came out of those Tovolo king cube molds. after a few months, those molds impart an extremely strong chemical flavor into their ice cubes. so… long story short, the ice you use matters a lot
- tudorw 10y agocortado con hielo no more words required :)
- miah_ 10y agoThis article would be so much better with an actual recipe, or even just ratios of coffee:ice. Though it has inspired me to look elsewhere to find that information, or do some experimentation in the kitchen to discover it.
- billfor 10y agoI'm surprised nobody has tried to flash chill it with liquid nitrogen.
- etatoby 10y agoNot to take anything away from the Japanese, but we have a similar process in Italy: brew hot, then quickly chill with ice. An espresso cup is brewed with a proper, bar sized espresso machine (or with a Nespresso, which IMHO is the only thing that comes close to it.) Then it is sugared, mixed, and poured in a shaker over ice cubes. The shaker is agitated quickly and vigorously for a short time, then the mixture strained into a tall glass. We call it Shaked coffee ("caffè shakerato") and it's notoriously difficult to get right. I have a stainless steel cocktail shaker that I use every summer for this very purpose, but even after years of trying I cannot get the right timing, quantities, and temperatures as a proper Barista would. Oh, and it's delicious!
- rconti 10y agoSome places in the US do a shakerato; I know Cafe Ladro in Seattle does.
- keane 10y agoCounter Culture Coffee has a video depicting the "brew hot, chill instantly" method (admittedly somewhat self-explanatory as merely brewing over ice) described in the article: https://counterculturecoffee.com/learn/quick-easy-iced-coffee https://counterculturecoffee.com/learn/quick-easy-iced-coffe...
- JasonCEC 10y agoI wrote an analysis on cold brewed coffee's a while back: https://www.gastrograph.com/blogs/gastronexus/flavor-profiles-in-cold-brew-coffee.html https://www.gastrograph.com/blogs/gastronexus/flavor-profile... Cheers!
- rconti 10y agoEvery morning a glass of crushed ice goes under the spout of my espresso machine. Any iced americano is going to be a lot like this method, except with espresso instead of brewed coffee, and water added. I add minimal extra water just because i like it as-is.
- Yhippa 10y agoIf anybody happens to be near Richmond, VA go to Alchemy Coffee near Virginia Commonwealth University (http://www.alchemycoffeerva.com/ http://www.alchemycoffeerva.com/). That's where I got my first taste of cold brew and I was hooked. It tasted like a different drink and I felt that I could taste different characteristics about coffee than other types. They take the time to talk to you about their Japanese cold brew process as well as the different types of coffee they acquire.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- nachtigall 10y agoAs others already said, this article really confuses "cold brew" and "iced coffee". Friends of mine have a roastery in Berlin and for "cold brew" the coffee extraction process takes a long time: > Basically, cold water is used in a Cold Brew for extraction, that is heat is replaced by time. Full step by step recipe is at https://www.flyingroasters.de/blog/cold-brew-rezept/ https://www.flyingroasters.de/blog/cold-brew-rezept/ (German only, Google Translator: https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flyingroasters.de%2Fblog%2Fcold-brew-rezept%2F https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=ht...) I personally like it very much with Tonic water. Especially in summer. Everybody who also likes Gin Tonic should try a Cold Brew with Tonic. If you happen to live in Berlin and want to try one without much hassle, they have a booth at the next Weddingmarkt on 3 July. Highly recommended.
- forgotpwtomain 10y ago> since the elusive and charming elements of flavor that make coffee special never get dissolved into the brew, and remain in the coffee grounds, which get thrown away. Isn't this just elegantly adjectivezed nonsense? The net result of a stoichistic process isn't altered by the speed at which it occurred. So cold-brew shouldn't end-up with a different composition if timed correctly relative to hot-brew?