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>> "NI won't leave as it might start another civil war." I think the complete opposite. This gives NI a real debate on independence. We now all face issues big

>> "NI won't leave as it might start another civil war." I think the complete opposite. This gives NI a real debate on independence. We now all face issues bigger than the usual partisan/sectarian nonsense. Border controls will effect a lot of people. That coupled with the many other problems could potentially lead to people putting their usual differences to one side as there are bigger fish to fry. And stop with the 'civil war' hyperbole. We are past that.

mattmanser 10y ago
How do you mean 'hyperbole'? As far as I know there are still killings and bombs even today. Do you feel a reunification campaign wouldn't escalate into a civil war? You might know better than me, but it sounds like wishful thinking. The DUP was campaigning for leave and several counties, ones not on the border, returned an overall leave majority. So I'm surprised you believe the unionists will allow what they've been fighting against for a century to just happen in a peaceful referendum? I'd love to be wrong, I have no insight to how the more extreme elements of each side think these days, are the troubles completely behind the country?
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  >> "How do you mean 'hyperbole'? As far as I know there are still killings and bombs even today" There are but on a small scale. Off the top of my head I can think of 1 shooting and 2 or 3 'successful' bombs in the past 5 years targeted at security services. Obviously not common in most countries but nothing on the scale of the past. Shootings tend to be punishment style attacks within communities, usually involving drugs. None of these acts get support from anyone these days. I think the DUP was the only party out of the 5 or 6 main parties advocating for leave. It's also not great for them that they hold the first minister position, advocated for leave, and within Northern Ireland people voted to remain. Similar position to the one Cameron is left in if you ask me. >> "So I'm surprised you believe the unionists will allow what they've been fighting against for a century to just happen in a peaceful referendum? I'd love to be wrong, I have no insight to how the more extreme elements of each side think these days, are the troubles completely behind the country?" The troubles are very much in the past. There are obviously still those who cling to the past but they tend to be concentrated in a few small communities with zero support outside those communities. Even when you look at the average person who would consider themselves nationalist all they really care about is keeping the peace we have. I think overall the climate is there with the people to have a debate about it - with the politicians not so much. When we have tactics in place that allow politicians to say no to even debating some social issues (gay marriage, abortion etc.) it's difficult to imagine them debating an issue as serious as this. I believe there are provisions in the peace agreement for a border poll so if those are met then it doesn't require anyone to allow the debate, it's automatically in the public arena where I believe an honest debate could occur.
- conail 10y ago
  > The DUP was campaigning for leave and several counties, ones not on the border, returned an overall leave majority. fwiw, Northern Ireland consists of just six counties. Only one does not share a border and only it returned an overall leave majority.

mattmanser 10y ago

How do you mean 'hyperbole'? As far as I know there are still killings and bombs even today. Do you feel a reunification campaign wouldn't escalate into a civil war? You might know better than me, but it sounds like wishful thinking. The DUP was campaigning for leave and several counties, ones not on the border, returned an overall leave majority. So I'm surprised you believe the unionists will allow what they've been fighting against for a century to just happen in a peaceful referendum? I'd love to be wrong, I have no insight to how the more extreme elements of each side think these days, are the troubles completely behind the country?

k-mcgrady 10y ago
>> "How do you mean 'hyperbole'? As far as I know there are still killings and bombs even today" There are but on a small scale. Off the top of my head I can think of 1 shooting and 2 or 3 'successful' bombs in the past 5 years targeted at security services. Obviously not common in most countries but nothing on the scale of the past. Shootings tend to be punishment style attacks within communities, usually involving drugs. None of these acts get support from anyone these days. I think the DUP was the only party out of the 5 or 6 main parties advocating for leave. It's also not great for them that they hold the first minister position, advocated for leave, and within Northern Ireland people voted to remain. Similar position to the one Cameron is left in if you ask me. >> "So I'm surprised you believe the unionists will allow what they've been fighting against for a century to just happen in a peaceful referendum? I'd love to be wrong, I have no insight to how the more extreme elements of each side think these days, are the troubles completely behind the country?" The troubles are very much in the past. There are obviously still those who cling to the past but they tend to be concentrated in a few small communities with zero support outside those communities. Even when you look at the average person who would consider themselves nationalist all they really care about is keeping the peace we have. I think overall the climate is there with the people to have a debate about it - with the politicians not so much. When we have tactics in place that allow politicians to say no to even debating some social issues (gay marriage, abortion etc.) it's difficult to imagine them debating an issue as serious as this. I believe there are provisions in the peace agreement for a border poll so if those are met then it doesn't require anyone to allow the debate, it's automatically in the public arena where I believe an honest debate could occur.
conail 10y ago
> The DUP was campaigning for leave and several counties, ones not on the border, returned an overall leave majority. fwiw, Northern Ireland consists of just six counties. Only one does not share a border and only it returned an overall leave majority.