6 ms·

I wonder what this will mean for the London tech scene. A LOT of people there are from other EU countries. I will affect the American giants too. Google and oth

I wonder what this will mean for the London tech scene. A LOT of people there are from other EU countries. I will affect the American giants too. Google and others have big development centres in London where it is easy to attract top talent from around Europe. They could re-focus to Ireland or Germany, but it will be harder to make people move there for a job.

s_kilk 10y ago
With any luck they all flee to Dublin or Edinburgh and we get a huge boost while England self-immolates.
- ianstallings 10y ago
  Why the anger?
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    At a guess because during the referendum for Scottish independence from the UK the line was 'stay because otherwise you'll not be in the EU anymore'. So for the Scots to find themselves out of the EU now by force is probably not what they wanted to wake up to.
  - s_kilk 10y ago
    Personally, because my home (Scotland) is being dragged into this situation against its will. If the English want to destroy themselves they're entitled to do so, but not drag the rest of us down with them.
    - DyslexicAtheist 10y ago
      Wouldn't it be great to have 3 more referendums for Wales, Scotland, Ireland to let them vote once more time? And then have them join the EU separately?
      - theoh 10y ago
        You mean "Northern Ireland".
        DyslexicAtheist 10y ago
        yes though I also realise Wales actually voted out so it would just be N.I. and Scotland
    - ianstallings 10y ago
      Ah, so it's hitting you personally. Well as an American, I can relate. We don't always get the government we want.
      - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
        You get to change government every 4 years. Scots are screwed for life against their will. Hardly the same.
      - s_kilk 10y ago
        Sometimes we don't get the government we want, but sometimes we get the government we explicitly rejected.
    - dingo_bat 10y ago
      That's quite a stupid reason to be angry. I would hope that people living in UK would understand the meaning of democracy.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        At a guess, they do. And democracy with 'simple majority required for huge changes' may not be the best recipe to get buy-in from those that are dragged along. So I fully understand the anger, if it weren't for the recent Scottish referendum that would be a different situation, but that did happen and for the Scots this must be extremely bitter right now.
      - omginternets 10y ago
        "majority rules" is often conflated with democracy.
    - sievebrain 10y ago
      40% of Scots voted to leave. I wouldn't talk about it like it's a single hive mind if I were you.
      - celticninja 10y ago
        Which means greater majority of Scots wanted to remain compared to a much smaller majority of the whole UK that wanted to leave. If a 51% vote to leave is relevant enough to warrant the UK leaving the EU then a 60% vote to remain is relevant.
        sievebrain 10y ago
        It's absolutely relevant, but it also means talking about the Scottish as if there are no eurosceptics there isn't reasonable.
  - dboreham 10y ago
    Have you seen Braveheart?
sievebrain 10y ago
Google's engineering HQ is in Switzerland, which isn't in the EU and also recently had a referendum to suspend freedom of (EU) movement.
- Xylakant 10y ago
  A referendum that the government has yet to make a law since the EUs stance is that all bilateral contracts from the first round of negotiations hinge on the freedom of movement. After the EU statement things became all quiet on that front.
  - Tomte 10y ago
    And a bit ironically, the EU declined to even negotiatiate with Switzerland, because any concessions would have helped the Brexit camp, and nobody wanted to risk a Brexit.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Google Opened a new Engineering HQ at Kings Cross in London. Switzerland has an FMP agreement with the EU which is something that clearly the UK doesn't want hence the BrExit.
  - sievebrain 10y ago
    Had. Please re-read my post. The 2-year deadline for implementing the referendum is nearly up.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      Yeah and we don't know what happened, Google made a strong move into the UK over the past 2 years and this year it opened a huge complex with a new HQ. It could've been just because of that and them not expecting a yes vote on the BrExit. That said tech companies never had many issues recruiting workers under Tier 2 general visas it's just more expensive for them. But you can bet your arse on the fact that none of the multinational corporations is happy now. I'm still thinking about Amazon they are registered in Luxembourg over 40% of the items I order ship overnight from the mainland (France/Germany) a lot of things will have to change.
bontoJR 10y ago
Probably won't happen anything that have been said in the last hours, no rush to Berlin, Dublin, Frankfurt or Paris. The exit has 2 years ahead to happen, in this period there's time to make deals, agreements and keep almost everything like it's now, slowly changing what doesn't work. Moving people is really hard, plus London has a business mentality that is hard to find anywhere else in Europe on the tech/startup scene. Anyway, time will tell what's going to happen. Switzerland lived the exact same situation in the '90s with the fear of having companies and corporation leaving the country in favour of the EU, well, with a hard work and agreements, that have been avoided. I know not joining is far different from quitting, but still, predicting the outcome is absolutely impossibile, UK might become the hottest country for business as can fall and die, both scenarios are equally possibile.
- mkesper 10y ago
  Both scenarios might be possible, but how did you gain the certainty that both possibilities were equal?
- r3to 10y ago
  As you mention Switzerland as an example. There was the Referendum to join the EEC in 92 which was lost. It took about ten years until the bilateral treaties with the EU were ratified. Also, I don't remember the nineties as a time, where the swiss economic boomed... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_Union_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_U...
dogma1138 10y ago
Google just opened new Headquarters @ Kings Cross (2 buildings 1 HQ + 1 for DeepMind) and Amazon was set to move into it's new HQ in liverpool street also. I really wonder how happy they are after spending couple of Bln's considering the London real estate market now.
mhuffman 10y ago
Why can't the UK have open borders to skilled immigrants and not so open to unskilled immigrants? I do not believe the UK is going to crack down on tech engineers and phds that want to work in their country.
- phatfish 10y ago
  You can't be a member of the EU (or the EAA if i remember) and restrict immigration from other EU countries. When the UK finally leaves then yes that could be how immigration is managed.
- europeansoft 10y ago
  They may leave them open, but for an European engineer it just became a lot less attractive.
- celticninja 10y ago
  They will not want to, but right now those skilled immigrants can easily come here to work, however if there was a lot of visa work to sort out then they may choose Germany or France over the UK. For an employer in London such as google it means dealing with many visa applications from many countries whereas if they were based in frankfurt or Dublin then they just need to deal with visas for UK applicants.
- celticninja 10y ago
  They will not want to, but right now those skilled immigrants can easily come here to work, however if there was a lot of visa work to sort out then they may choose Germany or France over the UK. For an employer in London such as google it means dealing with many visa applications from many countries whereas if they were based in frankfurt or Dublin then they just need to deal with visas for UK applicants.
- teh 10y ago
  Judging by today's discussion with friends one issue is that the UK looks very unwelcoming for immigrants like me now. We won't make any rash decisions but I think my partner and me are going to leave medium term despite us having great and interesting jobs. That's not a decision based on economics but on "soft" feelings.
imaginenore 10y ago
The UK (and the EU) programming salaries have been ridiculously low compared to the US for quite a while. In the US I can relatively easy get $100-140 per hour, $150+ with some luck. In the EU I mostly see jobs in the 80k euro range (senior web dev positions). I hope this is going to change now.

s_kilk 10y ago

With any luck they all flee to Dublin or Edinburgh and we get a huge boost while England self-immolates.

ianstallings 10y ago
Why the anger?
- jacquesm 10y ago
  At a guess because during the referendum for Scottish independence from the UK the line was 'stay because otherwise you'll not be in the EU anymore'. So for the Scots to find themselves out of the EU now by force is probably not what they wanted to wake up to.
- s_kilk 10y ago
  Personally, because my home (Scotland) is being dragged into this situation against its will. If the English want to destroy themselves they're entitled to do so, but not drag the rest of us down with them.
  - DyslexicAtheist 10y ago
    Wouldn't it be great to have 3 more referendums for Wales, Scotland, Ireland to let them vote once more time? And then have them join the EU separately?
    - theoh 10y ago
      You mean "Northern Ireland".
      - DyslexicAtheist 10y ago
        yes though I also realise Wales actually voted out so it would just be N.I. and Scotland
  - ianstallings 10y ago
    Ah, so it's hitting you personally. Well as an American, I can relate. We don't always get the government we want.
    - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
      You get to change government every 4 years. Scots are screwed for life against their will. Hardly the same.
    - s_kilk 10y ago
      Sometimes we don't get the government we want, but sometimes we get the government we explicitly rejected.
  - dingo_bat 10y ago
    That's quite a stupid reason to be angry. I would hope that people living in UK would understand the meaning of democracy.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      At a guess, they do. And democracy with 'simple majority required for huge changes' may not be the best recipe to get buy-in from those that are dragged along. So I fully understand the anger, if it weren't for the recent Scottish referendum that would be a different situation, but that did happen and for the Scots this must be extremely bitter right now.
    - omginternets 10y ago
      "majority rules" is often conflated with democracy.
  - sievebrain 10y ago
    40% of Scots voted to leave. I wouldn't talk about it like it's a single hive mind if I were you.
    - celticninja 10y ago
      Which means greater majority of Scots wanted to remain compared to a much smaller majority of the whole UK that wanted to leave. If a 51% vote to leave is relevant enough to warrant the UK leaving the EU then a 60% vote to remain is relevant.
      - sievebrain 10y ago
        It's absolutely relevant, but it also means talking about the Scottish as if there are no eurosceptics there isn't reasonable.
- dboreham 10y ago
  Have you seen Braveheart?

sievebrain 10y ago

Google's engineering HQ is in Switzerland, which isn't in the EU and also recently had a referendum to suspend freedom of (EU) movement.

Xylakant 10y ago
A referendum that the government has yet to make a law since the EUs stance is that all bilateral contracts from the first round of negotiations hinge on the freedom of movement. After the EU statement things became all quiet on that front.
- Tomte 10y ago
  And a bit ironically, the EU declined to even negotiatiate with Switzerland, because any concessions would have helped the Brexit camp, and nobody wanted to risk a Brexit.
dogma1138 10y ago
Google Opened a new Engineering HQ at Kings Cross in London. Switzerland has an FMP agreement with the EU which is something that clearly the UK doesn't want hence the BrExit.
- sievebrain 10y ago
  Had. Please re-read my post. The 2-year deadline for implementing the referendum is nearly up.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Yeah and we don't know what happened, Google made a strong move into the UK over the past 2 years and this year it opened a huge complex with a new HQ. It could've been just because of that and them not expecting a yes vote on the BrExit. That said tech companies never had many issues recruiting workers under Tier 2 general visas it's just more expensive for them. But you can bet your arse on the fact that none of the multinational corporations is happy now. I'm still thinking about Amazon they are registered in Luxembourg over 40% of the items I order ship overnight from the mainland (France/Germany) a lot of things will have to change.

bontoJR 10y ago

Probably won't happen anything that have been said in the last hours, no rush to Berlin, Dublin, Frankfurt or Paris. The exit has 2 years ahead to happen, in this period there's time to make deals, agreements and keep almost everything like it's now, slowly changing what doesn't work. Moving people is really hard, plus London has a business mentality that is hard to find anywhere else in Europe on the tech/startup scene. Anyway, time will tell what's going to happen. Switzerland lived the exact same situation in the '90s with the fear of having companies and corporation leaving the country in favour of the EU, well, with a hard work and agreements, that have been avoided. I know not joining is far different from quitting, but still, predicting the outcome is absolutely impossibile, UK might become the hottest country for business as can fall and die, both scenarios are equally possibile.

mkesper 10y ago
Both scenarios might be possible, but how did you gain the certainty that both possibilities were equal?
r3to 10y ago
As you mention Switzerland as an example. There was the Referendum to join the EEC in 92 which was lost. It took about ten years until the bilateral treaties with the EU were ratified. Also, I don't remember the nineties as a time, where the swiss economic boomed... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_Union_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_U...

dogma1138 10y ago

Google just opened new Headquarters @ Kings Cross (2 buildings 1 HQ + 1 for DeepMind) and Amazon was set to move into it's new HQ in liverpool street also. I really wonder how happy they are after spending couple of Bln's considering the London real estate market now.

mhuffman 10y ago

Why can't the UK have open borders to skilled immigrants and not so open to unskilled immigrants? I do not believe the UK is going to crack down on tech engineers and phds that want to work in their country.

phatfish 10y ago
You can't be a member of the EU (or the EAA if i remember) and restrict immigration from other EU countries. When the UK finally leaves then yes that could be how immigration is managed.
europeansoft 10y ago
They may leave them open, but for an European engineer it just became a lot less attractive.
celticninja 10y ago
They will not want to, but right now those skilled immigrants can easily come here to work, however if there was a lot of visa work to sort out then they may choose Germany or France over the UK. For an employer in London such as google it means dealing with many visa applications from many countries whereas if they were based in frankfurt or Dublin then they just need to deal with visas for UK applicants.
celticninja 10y ago
They will not want to, but right now those skilled immigrants can easily come here to work, however if there was a lot of visa work to sort out then they may choose Germany or France over the UK. For an employer in London such as google it means dealing with many visa applications from many countries whereas if they were based in frankfurt or Dublin then they just need to deal with visas for UK applicants.
teh 10y ago
Judging by today's discussion with friends one issue is that the UK looks very unwelcoming for immigrants like me now. We won't make any rash decisions but I think my partner and me are going to leave medium term despite us having great and interesting jobs. That's not a decision based on economics but on "soft" feelings.

imaginenore 10y ago

The UK (and the EU) programming salaries have been ridiculously low compared to the US for quite a while. In the US I can relatively easy get $100-140 per hour, $150+ with some luck. In the EU I mostly see jobs in the 80k euro range (senior web dev positions). I hope this is going to change now.