4 ms·

>Poland is being taken over by right-wing party Funny, two years ago everyone here was calling them a left-wing party. >reduces citizen rights, violates const

>Poland is being taken over by right-wing party Funny, two years ago everyone here was calling them a left-wing party. >reduces citizen rights, violates constitution They haven't done anything that the previous party didn't, but since the previous party lost this election the very same people who did it for the previous 8 years suddenly act like they have the moral high ground. >oppresses minorities Not wanting uncontrolled immigration is not "oppressing minorities". >removes the separation of the state and church This has never been as severe as people like to claim, even back in 2006.

toyg 10y ago
> Not wanting uncontrolled immigration So you don't want what your country benefited dramatically from in the last 15 years, when Polish people moved to UK to work, sending home additional capital and reducing demographic pressure. I apologize if this sounds inflammatory, it's not meant to but: it is, objectively, a very hypocritical position.
- ManlyBread 10y ago
  That was in regards to the immigrants that Merkel tried to push on us.
  - gambiting 10y ago
    The EU parliment had a meeting where basically what was said was "this is a huge issue, everyone should help by taking some" and then Polish government decided to get on a high horse and not accept anyone. It flies directly in the face of united Europe and I really hate what they(the government) are doing.
    - ManlyBread 10y ago
      Are you really surprised that the when there are so many reports about immigrants causing problems for the countries that take them in? No one here wants an another Cologne. And I find it really amusing that you talk about "united Europe" in the context of non-European immigrants. It is not okay for one country to cause a huge wave of immigration and then basically going "we can't take these people in so you have to and do it unconditionally" - which only encourages even more immigration.
      - gambiting 10y ago
        Those people arrive at EU shores, therefore they are EU's problem. If they arrived at Polish shores(as unlikely as that is) Poland would be asking for support of the rest of EU as well.
        ManlyBread 10y ago
        >Those people arrive at EU shores, therefore they are EU's problem. Can't argue with that, but this doesn't mean EU has to take these people in, neither it gives them the right to enter the EU. Several dozen years ago these people would get their boats sunk.
        gambiting 10y ago
        And 100 years ago they maybe would even be shot - problem solved! Fortunately we live in a civilization that is much better and we don't treat people in need like shit. At least I hope we don't. If someone is genuinely escaping from war, they should be given shelter, I hope there is no discussion about this.
        ManlyBread 10y ago
        The "genuinely escaping" is the key word here. Many of them had an option to stay in Turkey and they didn't because they thought that in Europe they will get more things for free. I really recommend watching "With Open Gates" on Youtube and listening to what the immigrants have to say. If the picture of immigrants in the video is the reality, then the government made a very good decision by not taking these people in.
    - lgieron 10y ago
      Maybe Polish parliament is less afraid to express what their people want. In Germany, there's on average 1 violent attack (beatings, burning of refugee centers) against immigrants per day. Yet the government acts as if there should be no debate. A separate isssue is just a feasibility of Poland taking in immigrants. Before the most recent mass wave of refugees and migrants started, Poland had voluntarily taken some refugees from Syria. Since then, every last one of them left - mostly for rich Western European countries. How does the EU intend to prevent the refugees and migrants from leaving Poland?
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  Wanting benefits and not wanting harm is pretty common.
rorykoehler 10y ago
Uncontrolled immigration is a bit of a misnomer. Where do you draw the line?
- skoczymroczny 10y ago
  I guess having passports is a good starter requirement for immigrants
  - rorykoehler 10y ago
    I have an EU passport....
gambiting 10y ago
PiS left-wing? When? They always were right-wing, and I am Polish so I have "some" idea.
- ManlyBread 10y ago
  It depends on how you view it, many of the party members say things that can be classified as right wing, but then their actions and how the actually rule the country are pretty left-wing in my opinion.

toyg 10y ago

> Not wanting uncontrolled immigration So you don't want what your country benefited dramatically from in the last 15 years, when Polish people moved to UK to work, sending home additional capital and reducing demographic pressure. I apologize if this sounds inflammatory, it's not meant to but: it is, objectively, a very hypocritical position.

ManlyBread 10y ago
That was in regards to the immigrants that Merkel tried to push on us.
- gambiting 10y ago
  The EU parliment had a meeting where basically what was said was "this is a huge issue, everyone should help by taking some" and then Polish government decided to get on a high horse and not accept anyone. It flies directly in the face of united Europe and I really hate what they(the government) are doing.
  - ManlyBread 10y ago
    Are you really surprised that the when there are so many reports about immigrants causing problems for the countries that take them in? No one here wants an another Cologne. And I find it really amusing that you talk about "united Europe" in the context of non-European immigrants. It is not okay for one country to cause a huge wave of immigration and then basically going "we can't take these people in so you have to and do it unconditionally" - which only encourages even more immigration.
    - gambiting 10y ago
      Those people arrive at EU shores, therefore they are EU's problem. If they arrived at Polish shores(as unlikely as that is) Poland would be asking for support of the rest of EU as well.
      - ManlyBread 10y ago
        >Those people arrive at EU shores, therefore they are EU's problem. Can't argue with that, but this doesn't mean EU has to take these people in, neither it gives them the right to enter the EU. Several dozen years ago these people would get their boats sunk.
        gambiting 10y ago
        And 100 years ago they maybe would even be shot - problem solved! Fortunately we live in a civilization that is much better and we don't treat people in need like shit. At least I hope we don't. If someone is genuinely escaping from war, they should be given shelter, I hope there is no discussion about this.
        ManlyBread 10y ago
        The "genuinely escaping" is the key word here. Many of them had an option to stay in Turkey and they didn't because they thought that in Europe they will get more things for free. I really recommend watching "With Open Gates" on Youtube and listening to what the immigrants have to say. If the picture of immigrants in the video is the reality, then the government made a very good decision by not taking these people in.
  - lgieron 10y ago
    Maybe Polish parliament is less afraid to express what their people want. In Germany, there's on average 1 violent attack (beatings, burning of refugee centers) against immigrants per day. Yet the government acts as if there should be no debate. A separate isssue is just a feasibility of Poland taking in immigrants. Before the most recent mass wave of refugees and migrants started, Poland had voluntarily taken some refugees from Syria. Since then, every last one of them left - mostly for rich Western European countries. How does the EU intend to prevent the refugees and migrants from leaving Poland?
MustardTiger 10y ago
Wanting benefits and not wanting harm is pretty common.

rorykoehler 10y ago

Uncontrolled immigration is a bit of a misnomer. Where do you draw the line?

skoczymroczny 10y ago
I guess having passports is a good starter requirement for immigrants
- rorykoehler 10y ago
  I have an EU passport....

gambiting 10y ago

PiS left-wing? When? They always were right-wing, and I am Polish so I have "some" idea.

ManlyBread 10y ago
It depends on how you view it, many of the party members say things that can be classified as right wing, but then their actions and how the actually rule the country are pretty left-wing in my opinion.