4 ms·

To be fair this the lifestyle most elites in the US also have.

emp_zealoth 10y ago
They also live in gated communities with armed guards, have to put up with theft and batter, carjackings, etc. I genuinely do not understand how you can tolerate living like that - youtube channels telling people how to stop their house being robbed ("It works! My house is the only one that wasn't in the whole neighbourhood! Woo!")
- jjnoakes 10y ago
  You think that sensationalist view reflects reality for a vast majority of Americans? I've lived here for decades in 15 different states. I've been poor. I've been middle class. I've been friends with the "elite". I've lived in big cities and small towns. I've never seen a car jacking. I've never seen an armed guard assigned to a gated community. I've never seen a mugging. I'm not sure I've ever witnessed a crime beyond traffic violations. I'm sure they exist. But to think they are common from watching YouTube?
  - spiderfarmer 10y ago
    I've been to the states for three weeks, driving from cheap motel to cheap motel. As you say, most of the US is just fine. But even in my three weeks I have seen lots of homeless people at busstops and intersections. I've heard distant gunshots in the (very) cheap motel in LA, where the police sirens were so common that I mistakenly thought that we were really close to a police station. I saw so many people who were dangerously obese that I can't blame the people who repeat the "FAT MURICANS" meme. Some major roads were riddled with potholes and looked nothing like the images we saw in movies that supposedly play in LA. Let's just say the image I had beforehand (mostly instilled by Hollywood movies) was exactly the opposite.
    - wil421 10y ago
      I was in Italy for 2 weeks and saw more homeless people and beggars than I see on a regular bases in the US. I also saw huge camps with people living out of tents on the Tiber in Rome and several camps of gypses living out of cars and RVs. Its all relative. There were just as many fat Germans or Brits as fat Americans touring. The Italians were mostly slim. The cobblestone streets in Rome and Florence had plenty of holes. You obviously for some reason don't like Americans. The biggest difference I saw was there was almost no opportunity in Italy. Young locals with college degrees bartending or waiting tables for 8-9 euros an hour because they can't get a job (same thing happens in America but the locals I spoke to had desirable degrees). I've been to Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Mexico and Panama and heard sirens and gun violence in most of those places despite guns being illegal. Been to London and Scotland and heard ambulances at night in the big cities. It's all realitive but the one thing I've seen in America is more opportunity.
    - jjnoakes 10y ago
      You've gone from armed guards in gated communities all over America to homeless people in the poor parts of cities and fat people? Moving the goal posts a LOT, aren't we?
    - theandrewbailey 10y ago
      > I saw so many people who were dangerously obese that I can't blame the people who repeat the "FAT MURICANS" meme. It's not a meme. It's reality. -A fat (but not obese) American
- Amezarak 10y ago
  I live in a very poor state and yet: > I'm well off, as well as my temporarily unemployed neighbours, there are no beggars in the streets, the roads are paved nicely and I can visit a doctor without him bankrupting me. ...is pretty well entirely true for me - the temporarily unemployed seem to do OK, there's no homeless people, roads are very well paved, doctor is relatively cheap, while... > They also live in gated communities with armed guards, have to put up with theft and batter, carjackings, etc. Sounds like some alien civilization. I've never even seen a gated community, I have never, nor known anyone, who experienced theft or battery and certainly not a carjacking. About ten years ago there was a carjacking a few miles down the road from my parents. I understand that in some urban areas there are places like this, but I hesitate to put that too strongly since I've never seen them in the cities I've been to. It is certainly not representative of the country as a whole.
- no_flags 10y ago
  "gated communities with armed guards" That would be Mexico
spiderfarmer 10y ago
Yeah, let's close the gates and pretend the rest of the country does not exist.
- dang 10y ago
  Please don't be snarky, especially on divisive topics.
dexterdog 10y ago
If by elites you mean the middle class and up.
- lgieron 10y ago
  What happens if you lose your job and, before you find a new one, have serious medical problems? Who picks up the bill?
  - pc86 10y ago
    Subsidized insurance coverage is available after job loss and was prior to the ACA so I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove.
    - lgieron 10y ago
      I am not trying to prove anything, I'm just asking (I'm not from the US). If that's the case, why are people so many worried about losing healthcare coverage after leaving their jobs (to work on personal project for example)? Is it different if you leave voluntarily vs being sacked?
      - Amezarak 10y ago
        Except in the states that refused the Affordable Care Act Medicaid expansion, unemployed people qualify for free medical care via Medicaid, assuming they did not keep their old health care through COBRA or something.
        lbhnact 10y ago
        This is a bit off for most people that might actually be affected by the unemployment->insurance loss->need to get insurance asap problem. About 30-40% of non-medicare America lives in non-expansion states, more if you include long-term resident undocumented (not just seasonal workers). Medicaid is not available to 'unenemployed' people in most states in any sort of automatic way, so if you were employed in most middle class jobs, you won't qualify without serious tax shifting around the eligibility year enrollment cycle. If you make under 133% of the federal poverty level in non-expansion states, you don't qualify for the exchanges. Each non-expansion state's metrics for Medicaid qualification are slightly different. Unless you are under-18, a pregnant mother, or have ESRD, you probably don't qualify. Also, to a different point above, COBRA is not 'discounted'. It temporary, but generally just as expensive as private insurance. Kaiser Family Foundation is a great place for digestible data on US health care.

They also live in gated communities with armed guards, have to put up with theft and batter, carjackings, etc. I genuinely do not understand how you can tolerate living like that - youtube channels telling people how to stop their house being robbed ("It works! My house is the only one that wasn't in the whole neighbourhood! Woo!")

jjnoakes 10y ago
You think that sensationalist view reflects reality for a vast majority of Americans? I've lived here for decades in 15 different states. I've been poor. I've been middle class. I've been friends with the "elite". I've lived in big cities and small towns. I've never seen a car jacking. I've never seen an armed guard assigned to a gated community. I've never seen a mugging. I'm not sure I've ever witnessed a crime beyond traffic violations. I'm sure they exist. But to think they are common from watching YouTube?
- spiderfarmer 10y ago
  I've been to the states for three weeks, driving from cheap motel to cheap motel. As you say, most of the US is just fine. But even in my three weeks I have seen lots of homeless people at busstops and intersections. I've heard distant gunshots in the (very) cheap motel in LA, where the police sirens were so common that I mistakenly thought that we were really close to a police station. I saw so many people who were dangerously obese that I can't blame the people who repeat the "FAT MURICANS" meme. Some major roads were riddled with potholes and looked nothing like the images we saw in movies that supposedly play in LA. Let's just say the image I had beforehand (mostly instilled by Hollywood movies) was exactly the opposite.
  - wil421 10y ago
    I was in Italy for 2 weeks and saw more homeless people and beggars than I see on a regular bases in the US. I also saw huge camps with people living out of tents on the Tiber in Rome and several camps of gypses living out of cars and RVs. Its all relative. There were just as many fat Germans or Brits as fat Americans touring. The Italians were mostly slim. The cobblestone streets in Rome and Florence had plenty of holes. You obviously for some reason don't like Americans. The biggest difference I saw was there was almost no opportunity in Italy. Young locals with college degrees bartending or waiting tables for 8-9 euros an hour because they can't get a job (same thing happens in America but the locals I spoke to had desirable degrees). I've been to Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Mexico and Panama and heard sirens and gun violence in most of those places despite guns being illegal. Been to London and Scotland and heard ambulances at night in the big cities. It's all realitive but the one thing I've seen in America is more opportunity.
  - jjnoakes 10y ago
    You've gone from armed guards in gated communities all over America to homeless people in the poor parts of cities and fat people? Moving the goal posts a LOT, aren't we?
  - theandrewbailey 10y ago
    > I saw so many people who were dangerously obese that I can't blame the people who repeat the "FAT MURICANS" meme. It's not a meme. It's reality. -A fat (but not obese) American
Amezarak 10y ago
I live in a very poor state and yet: > I'm well off, as well as my temporarily unemployed neighbours, there are no beggars in the streets, the roads are paved nicely and I can visit a doctor without him bankrupting me. ...is pretty well entirely true for me - the temporarily unemployed seem to do OK, there's no homeless people, roads are very well paved, doctor is relatively cheap, while... > They also live in gated communities with armed guards, have to put up with theft and batter, carjackings, etc. Sounds like some alien civilization. I've never even seen a gated community, I have never, nor known anyone, who experienced theft or battery and certainly not a carjacking. About ten years ago there was a carjacking a few miles down the road from my parents. I understand that in some urban areas there are places like this, but I hesitate to put that too strongly since I've never seen them in the cities I've been to. It is certainly not representative of the country as a whole.
no_flags 10y ago
"gated communities with armed guards" That would be Mexico

spiderfarmer 10y ago

Yeah, let's close the gates and pretend the rest of the country does not exist.

dang 10y ago
Please don't be snarky, especially on divisive topics.

dexterdog 10y ago

If by elites you mean the middle class and up.

lgieron 10y ago
What happens if you lose your job and, before you find a new one, have serious medical problems? Who picks up the bill?
- pc86 10y ago
  Subsidized insurance coverage is available after job loss and was prior to the ACA so I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove.
  - lgieron 10y ago
    I am not trying to prove anything, I'm just asking (I'm not from the US). If that's the case, why are people so many worried about losing healthcare coverage after leaving their jobs (to work on personal project for example)? Is it different if you leave voluntarily vs being sacked?
    - Amezarak 10y ago
      Except in the states that refused the Affordable Care Act Medicaid expansion, unemployed people qualify for free medical care via Medicaid, assuming they did not keep their old health care through COBRA or something.
      - lbhnact 10y ago
        This is a bit off for most people that might actually be affected by the unemployment->insurance loss->need to get insurance asap problem. About 30-40% of non-medicare America lives in non-expansion states, more if you include long-term resident undocumented (not just seasonal workers). Medicaid is not available to 'unenemployed' people in most states in any sort of automatic way, so if you were employed in most middle class jobs, you won't qualify without serious tax shifting around the eligibility year enrollment cycle. If you make under 133% of the federal poverty level in non-expansion states, you don't qualify for the exchanges. Each non-expansion state's metrics for Medicaid qualification are slightly different. Unless you are under-18, a pregnant mother, or have ESRD, you probably don't qualify. Also, to a different point above, COBRA is not 'discounted'. It temporary, but generally just as expensive as private insurance. Kaiser Family Foundation is a great place for digestible data on US health care.