6 ms·

Maybe the EU as is should also resign and reappear in a better shape. Europe will stay Europe and I don't think everything will shatter now. On the contrary,

Maybe the EU as is should also resign and reappear in a better shape. Europe will stay Europe and I don't think everything will shatter now. On the contrary, isn't it a nice demonstration of democracy and treaties can be re-negotiated. I'm quite sure that many people are not happy with the current EU arrangement and would vote to leave (if they could and/or if they weren't so much bound by economic benefits as e.g. Gibraltar). An EU reform is needed and I hope this Brexit serves as another signal that it is really about time to speak honestly about 'some issues' and try to find solutions for them.

Spearchucker 10y ago
"...isn't it a nice demonstration of democracy and treaties can be re-negotiated..." You understand how this works, right? As part of the EU the UK has bartering clout. As an independent little island with a huge trade deficit and a weak £ it has nothing. So a trade deal with China, for instance, would end with China trading in the UK, and the UK waiting 15 years before trading in China. There is hyperbole in what I'm saying, which is probably a result of the disappointing outcome of the referendum, but... the UK as a trading partner has nothing to offer anyone.
- chappi42 10y ago
  Agree, independent little is ..difficult. My main argument though was that the EU must somehow? reform and that this vote was a (partly dissapointing, partly brave) request for it. UK belongs to Europe and a re-negotiated 'Union-solution' can and will be found, I'm quite sure. EU also has nothing to offer if too many countries leave...
- sievebrain 10y ago
  The idea of "clout" is an incorrect belief that is not supported by the data: http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from-eu-collective-clout http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from...
  - Spearchucker 10y ago
    Thanks for that, interesting observations. Still sceptical though (not saying you're wrong), given the UK huge trade deficit and now a weak £.
    - msabalau 10y ago
      A weak pound makes british products more affordable to foreign consumers,which should partially mitigate the trade deficit.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > A weak pound makes british products more affordable to foreign consumers And foreign goods less affordable to British consumers... > which should partially mitigate the trade deficit. Indeed.

Spearchucker 10y ago

"...isn't it a nice demonstration of democracy and treaties can be re-negotiated..." You understand how this works, right? As part of the EU the UK has bartering clout. As an independent little island with a huge trade deficit and a weak £ it has nothing. So a trade deal with China, for instance, would end with China trading in the UK, and the UK waiting 15 years before trading in China. There is hyperbole in what I'm saying, which is probably a result of the disappointing outcome of the referendum, but... the UK as a trading partner has nothing to offer anyone.

chappi42 10y ago
Agree, independent little is ..difficult. My main argument though was that the EU must somehow? reform and that this vote was a (partly dissapointing, partly brave) request for it. UK belongs to Europe and a re-negotiated 'Union-solution' can and will be found, I'm quite sure. EU also has nothing to offer if too many countries leave...
sievebrain 10y ago
The idea of "clout" is an incorrect belief that is not supported by the data: http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from-eu-collective-clout http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from...
- Spearchucker 10y ago
  Thanks for that, interesting observations. Still sceptical though (not saying you're wrong), given the UK huge trade deficit and now a weak £.
  - msabalau 10y ago
    A weak pound makes british products more affordable to foreign consumers,which should partially mitigate the trade deficit.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > A weak pound makes british products more affordable to foreign consumers And foreign goods less affordable to British consumers... > which should partially mitigate the trade deficit. Indeed.