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Your post is nonsense. The grandparent post had no logical fallacies, it was structurally incapable of having logical fallacies, by virtue of not making a deduc

Your post is nonsense. The grandparent post had no logical fallacies, it was structurally incapable of having logical fallacies, by virtue of not making a deductive argument, just describing a factual belief. The grandparent post stated a belief that research universities are superior to "teaching" schools, and then described ways in which they are superior, with an addendum about what the author really wants out of a university experience. It was an informative post (that I disagree with), but it had no premise, no conclusion, no deduction that could be fallacious. > For starters, what is a "teaching" school? is it the same as a teaching focused university? As you seem well aware, there are many conventional ways including R1 to classify research-focused vs teaching-focused schools, which all broadly agree, especially on the leaders in each category. > why the narrowing to quantitative research? This is an excellent point, and one of the reasons I disagree with grandparent. > Your incorrect assertion that research is more difficult than education goes against [...] basic logic itself. Education is immensely more complicated than most research Seriously, this is not how logic works. "You're wrong" is not a logical fallacy. Regarding the actual point: while there's a case to be made that education is more complicated than research (perhaps even "immensely"), due to the same reasons that social sciences are more complicated than "hard" sciences, it doesn't seem any stronger to me than the case for the reverse. In particular, objectively there's more pay, status, and recognition for quantitative research than education (how many more people have heard of the Nobel Prize than...whatever awards they give out for teaching?), due at least in part to supply and demand, which says something about relative difficulty. > ...you say research universities are superior. On what metric? a lot of Olin students chose Olin over MIT. A lot of Deep Springs students (mentioned lower in the thread) choose it over places like Harvard and Yale. Now you're making an actual point. Good for you.

avs733 10y ago
I am sorry you got downvoted...your post was perfectly reasonable and correct. I didn't mean logical fallacy, poor choice of words at 2am while grumpy.
- laughinghan 10y ago
  Wow, thanks. Don't be sorry, I probably deserved it, I was also super grumpy. I need to stop Commenting While Grumpy.
dang 10y ago
> Your post is nonsense > Now you're making an actual point. Good for you. Please edit the uncivil bits out of your comments here. If you like, you can do as I do and set 'delay' in your profile to up to 10 minutes to give you some editing time before your comment appears to others.
- laughinghan 10y ago
  Oof, being chided by dang, I definitely fucked up. I do think my window for editing it had long lapsed by the time you commented? Not that I'm entitled to your time, but I'd be grateful for clarification on the uncivil bits? "Good for you" was kinda condescending, I see; "Your post is nonsense" was in direct response to the first sentence of my parent, which said that grandparent "is nonsense", and is also factual and I made a good-faith case for it, is that really not okay? I guess "nonsense" is a charged word, perhaps it should have been something like "That post was not nonsense, it is your post that makes no sense."?
  - dang 10y ago
    Well, you get points back for using the word 'chide'. And you didn't break the rules that badly, which is why my comment was mild. But here's a detailed explanation. Beginning a comment with "your post is nonsense" is leading with a left hook regardless of what was said upthread. Nothing good can come of it and it frames everything else that you say as hostile (even if it isn't). Perhaps there's a semi-technical meaning to "nonsense", but in the context of an internet forum it can only count as name-calling, which the guidelines prohibit (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). (By the way, rough-and-tumble discourse can function well in smaller, more cohesive contexts, e.g. research communities or literary salons. But it emphatically does not port to large internet communities. That's something it took me years to figure out.) Replacing it with "it is your post that makes no sense" doesn't help much, does it? (It reminds me of "I'm sorry the honorable member is a liar.") You'd be better off not rewording that bit but dropping it altogether. Sticking to the substance is a better way to show (not tell) the weaknesses of another comment. "Now you're making an actual point. Good for you." is just two condescending swipes in a row. That's like finishing with a couple of right hooks. And "Seriously, this is not how logic works" sounds condescending to me as well. If I read your comment without those bits it becomes much more substantive and respectful. The editing time I was talking about isn't the two-hour window for which comments are open to be edited, but an up-to-10-minute window you can have before your comments appear to others. (That's the 'delay' setting in the profile.) That lets you see your comment in the wild before it appears to other users, which sometimes helps clarify where it crosses into incivility—which can be difficult to see beforehand.

avs733 10y ago

I am sorry you got downvoted...your post was perfectly reasonable and correct. I didn't mean logical fallacy, poor choice of words at 2am while grumpy.

laughinghan 10y ago
Wow, thanks. Don't be sorry, I probably deserved it, I was also super grumpy. I need to stop Commenting While Grumpy.

dang 10y ago

> Your post is nonsense > Now you're making an actual point. Good for you. Please edit the uncivil bits out of your comments here. If you like, you can do as I do and set 'delay' in your profile to up to 10 minutes to give you some editing time before your comment appears to others.

laughinghan 10y ago
Oof, being chided by dang, I definitely fucked up. I do think my window for editing it had long lapsed by the time you commented? Not that I'm entitled to your time, but I'd be grateful for clarification on the uncivil bits? "Good for you" was kinda condescending, I see; "Your post is nonsense" was in direct response to the first sentence of my parent, which said that grandparent "is nonsense", and is also factual and I made a good-faith case for it, is that really not okay? I guess "nonsense" is a charged word, perhaps it should have been something like "That post was not nonsense, it is your post that makes no sense."?
- dang 10y ago
  Well, you get points back for using the word 'chide'. And you didn't break the rules that badly, which is why my comment was mild. But here's a detailed explanation. Beginning a comment with "your post is nonsense" is leading with a left hook regardless of what was said upthread. Nothing good can come of it and it frames everything else that you say as hostile (even if it isn't). Perhaps there's a semi-technical meaning to "nonsense", but in the context of an internet forum it can only count as name-calling, which the guidelines prohibit (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). (By the way, rough-and-tumble discourse can function well in smaller, more cohesive contexts, e.g. research communities or literary salons. But it emphatically does not port to large internet communities. That's something it took me years to figure out.) Replacing it with "it is your post that makes no sense" doesn't help much, does it? (It reminds me of "I'm sorry the honorable member is a liar.") You'd be better off not rewording that bit but dropping it altogether. Sticking to the substance is a better way to show (not tell) the weaknesses of another comment. "Now you're making an actual point. Good for you." is just two condescending swipes in a row. That's like finishing with a couple of right hooks. And "Seriously, this is not how logic works" sounds condescending to me as well. If I read your comment without those bits it becomes much more substantive and respectful. The editing time I was talking about isn't the two-hour window for which comments are open to be edited, but an up-to-10-minute window you can have before your comments appear to others. (That's the 'delay' setting in the profile.) That lets you see your comment in the wild before it appears to other users, which sometimes helps clarify where it crosses into incivility—which can be difficult to see beforehand.