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Well that was unexpected but I guess not that unexpected since only British citizens were asked. If all the people living in the UK regardless of citizenship w

by Fuxy 10y ago

Well that was unexpected but I guess not that unexpected since only British citizens were asked. If all the people living in the UK regardless of citizenship were asked the result would have been different. I wasn't allowed to vote even though I've been living in the UK over 5 years since I'm not a British citizen for example. Edit: if you're going to down-vote at least explain your reasoning.

kyrre 10y ago
why would they allow foreigners to vote whether or not to kick foreigners out? bizarre.
- Fuxy 10y ago
  See that's the problem I'm still being treated as a foreigner even though I've been living here for years and have been contributing to the British NHS service, paying British taxes and in all generating wealth for the country. All the obligation but I don't get a say on what my new home country should do? Does that seem right to you?
  - knackernews 10y ago
    It's perfectly fine. Just go through the naturalization process that is available to you, swear allegiance to the Queen and you can have your say in the country's future. Being a citizen is more than being a tax payer or generating wealth.
    - 7Z7 10y ago
      Or just be colonised by the British at some point in your past..
    - hk__2 10y ago
      Isn’t it absurd that as someone who lives somewhere and pay their taxes you can’t have a say on local politics, just because you don’t have a piece of paper that says you have the right nationality? As a French I can live 10 years outside of the country and still vote for the mayor of Paris. You don’t even need to live in Europe to vote for European elections if you have that paper that says you’re “French”.
  - yandie 10y ago
    Voting is a privilege of being a citizen. At least you get access to a bunch of benefits thanks to the UK (used to) being part of EU. I'm a non EU citizen working in the UK and I don't get any of that if I lose my job. I don't have any problem with not being able to vote. Although funny enough, my spouse is Australian, and being a commonwealth citizen, he can vote here
    - anonymousDan 10y ago
      Why the hell should commonwealth citizens get a vote and not EU citizens?
      - nicky0 10y ago
        Them's the rules. General elections in the UK are open to British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens residing in the UK. As set out in the Representation of the People Act 1918.
  - throwaway049 10y ago
    You've been very unlucky in that the referendum came before you could become a citizen, but I do believe it is right that the poll was restricted to citizens and certain classes of other permanent residents[0]. [0] https://fullfact.org/europe/who-can-vote-eu-referendum/ https://fullfact.org/europe/who-can-vote-eu-referendum/
  - blfr 10y ago
    You contributed to the British NHS and could use their services. It doesn't make you British. Just like buying any other service usually doesn't make you a shareholder in the company which provides it.
    - jpetso 10y ago
      I think it would be worth (re?)considering what should meaningfully constitute citizenship. Allegiance to your monarch? Participating in communities? Bringing your country's hono(u)r and values everywhere you go? Committing to a certain number of years of residency? Going to war for some politician's economic or expansionist dreams? Feeling more connected to other citizens who vote with their fear and raw emotions, rather than to some reasonable foreigner? As it stands, the definition of citizenship from my own practical point of view is, "You've been a permanent resident for long enough, have picked up the language in the process, know a few history facts and the National Anthem, and are willing to give up your previous country's citizenship for us". With all due respect, that's a lousy set of criteria for whether or not I get to vote in a country that I care about, whose people, policies and politics I follow closely, and that I consider a long-term home for at least a good portion of my life. Being a citizen is definitely more than being a taxpayer. But then, look at what your criteria would be, and apply that same standard to born citizens. Being born in a certain place, or to a certain set of parents, is obviously a much better criterion to judge people and their connection to a country, is it not? Obviously that's what people have decided on and continue to uphold. I just find it hard to follow that reasoning.
  - Khaine 10y ago
    Sorry, but you are a foreigner. Your not a British citizen. In Australia we have people who are Permanent Residents. They have rights to work in Australia, but they are not citizens. They don't get to vote in elections. It appears to me that as an EU Citizen in Britain you are the equivalent of a PR. I'm not sure why you feel that the franchise should be further extended to cover people who work in the UK, but are not citizens. The EU is not a political union. It is an economic union. This has been the problem from the start. People want it both ways when it suits them.
  - BrutallyHonest 10y ago
    You want to exercise rights without fully committing?
  - dropit_sphere 10y ago
    You aren't fulfilling the obligation of carrying on a UK citizen's genes---states are, to an extent, a mediator between parents and children.
saiya-jin 10y ago
this is how it works anywhere in the world, including your home country, wherever you come from. and it actually makes sense, citizenship brings a lot of rights.
- anonymousDan 10y ago
  No it's not. As an Irish citizen resident in the Uk I can vote in Uk elections but not Irish ones.
CaptainDecisive 10y ago
I don't know what the actual rules were regarding eligibility, but I am a permanent resident of the UK and not a British citizen, and I voted yesterday. So some non British citizens were able to vote.
dazc 10y ago
As a UK citizen I live in Spain and I would never dream of having a say in how the Spanish people should live their lives.
- anonymousDan 10y ago
  Why not? As an Irish citizen living in the Uk I get to vote in British elections and frankly would find it annoying if I couldn't. Note that I can't vote in Irish elections, but British people resident in Ireland can.
  - dazc 10y ago
    It's their country, not mine. I didn't know about your right to vote in elections but I'm more comfortable with that than I would be about you having a say in the EU referendum.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - anonymousDan 10y ago
      Sorry I don't get you. I was able to vote in the EU elections, as were commonwealth citizens. What I was taking issue with was the insinuation that it is ridiculous to think that EU citizens should have been able to vote.
      - dazc 10y ago
        OK, I misunderstood. But, to answer your question I didn't intend to imply it was ridiculous but I don't think any EU citizen (regardless of national citizenship) should have a say in the UK's membership of the EU, not least because they would be somewhat biased. Just my opinion.
- airesQ 10y ago
  It's the common market. Safety regulations on microwaves are EU wide. Is that that big of deal? (For Euro countries things are big different, but still.)
Lio 10y ago
Without considering the result of the referendum, do you know of any other country that would allow visiting citizens from another country to vote on something so serious? Just for point of discussion since since you only mention living in the UK for over 5 years but if someone had resident for 6 years or over then they could apply to become a UK citizen. For most nationalities (but not US I seem to remember) you could become a joint citizen so wouldn't really have to give anything up in the process. If becoming a UK citizen is not something someone aspires to then surely a point could be made that that person is not invested in the future of the UK. If you've only been here for 5 years and want(ed) to become a citizen in the future then you have my sympathies. For disclosure, I'm British, pro-immigration and voted to remain in the EU; I feel sad today.
- anonymousDan 10y ago
  But why on earth would you have bothered applying for citizenship since being an EU citizen already gives you the same rights. I think if people had actually thought ahead of time that brexit would win you would have seen a huge uptake in citizenship applications.
  - Lio 10y ago
    I would guess that would come down to how you view the EU. If you view it as a single nation state or as group of cooperating partner nations.
- Fuxy 10y ago
  I applied for citizenship already once but since I couldn’t prove I was in the country the entire time during my first year since my employment was a bit random at the time I got rejected. My only option is to wait another year so in can prove it even though if they really wanted they could probably check their own records to see my immigration activity. It's quite difficult to get citizenship I know someone who got a 10 page letter citing a lot of random legal clauses for why she got rejected. Hell it looked almost like they were trying too hard and felt borderline racist to me but I could be imagining things.
7Z7 10y ago
>..only British citizens were asked. I'm Irish and I voted, and my wife is from an Asian commonwealth country and she voted. Neither of us are British citizens
CanSpice 10y ago
A couple of Canadian friends of mine living in England were able to vote. No, not only British citizens were asked.

by Fuxy 10y ago

kyrre 10y ago

why would they allow foreigners to vote whether or not to kick foreigners out? bizarre.

Fuxy 10y ago
See that's the problem I'm still being treated as a foreigner even though I've been living here for years and have been contributing to the British NHS service, paying British taxes and in all generating wealth for the country. All the obligation but I don't get a say on what my new home country should do? Does that seem right to you?
- knackernews 10y ago
  It's perfectly fine. Just go through the naturalization process that is available to you, swear allegiance to the Queen and you can have your say in the country's future. Being a citizen is more than being a tax payer or generating wealth.
  - 7Z7 10y ago
    Or just be colonised by the British at some point in your past..
  - hk__2 10y ago
    Isn’t it absurd that as someone who lives somewhere and pay their taxes you can’t have a say on local politics, just because you don’t have a piece of paper that says you have the right nationality? As a French I can live 10 years outside of the country and still vote for the mayor of Paris. You don’t even need to live in Europe to vote for European elections if you have that paper that says you’re “French”.
- yandie 10y ago
  Voting is a privilege of being a citizen. At least you get access to a bunch of benefits thanks to the UK (used to) being part of EU. I'm a non EU citizen working in the UK and I don't get any of that if I lose my job. I don't have any problem with not being able to vote. Although funny enough, my spouse is Australian, and being a commonwealth citizen, he can vote here
  - anonymousDan 10y ago
    Why the hell should commonwealth citizens get a vote and not EU citizens?
    - nicky0 10y ago
      Them's the rules. General elections in the UK are open to British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens residing in the UK. As set out in the Representation of the People Act 1918.
- throwaway049 10y ago
  You've been very unlucky in that the referendum came before you could become a citizen, but I do believe it is right that the poll was restricted to citizens and certain classes of other permanent residents[0]. [0] https://fullfact.org/europe/who-can-vote-eu-referendum/ https://fullfact.org/europe/who-can-vote-eu-referendum/
- blfr 10y ago
  You contributed to the British NHS and could use their services. It doesn't make you British. Just like buying any other service usually doesn't make you a shareholder in the company which provides it.
  - jpetso 10y ago
    I think it would be worth (re?)considering what should meaningfully constitute citizenship. Allegiance to your monarch? Participating in communities? Bringing your country's hono(u)r and values everywhere you go? Committing to a certain number of years of residency? Going to war for some politician's economic or expansionist dreams? Feeling more connected to other citizens who vote with their fear and raw emotions, rather than to some reasonable foreigner? As it stands, the definition of citizenship from my own practical point of view is, "You've been a permanent resident for long enough, have picked up the language in the process, know a few history facts and the National Anthem, and are willing to give up your previous country's citizenship for us". With all due respect, that's a lousy set of criteria for whether or not I get to vote in a country that I care about, whose people, policies and politics I follow closely, and that I consider a long-term home for at least a good portion of my life. Being a citizen is definitely more than being a taxpayer. But then, look at what your criteria would be, and apply that same standard to born citizens. Being born in a certain place, or to a certain set of parents, is obviously a much better criterion to judge people and their connection to a country, is it not? Obviously that's what people have decided on and continue to uphold. I just find it hard to follow that reasoning.
- Khaine 10y ago
  Sorry, but you are a foreigner. Your not a British citizen. In Australia we have people who are Permanent Residents. They have rights to work in Australia, but they are not citizens. They don't get to vote in elections. It appears to me that as an EU Citizen in Britain you are the equivalent of a PR. I'm not sure why you feel that the franchise should be further extended to cover people who work in the UK, but are not citizens. The EU is not a political union. It is an economic union. This has been the problem from the start. People want it both ways when it suits them.
- BrutallyHonest 10y ago
  You want to exercise rights without fully committing?
- dropit_sphere 10y ago
  You aren't fulfilling the obligation of carrying on a UK citizen's genes---states are, to an extent, a mediator between parents and children.

saiya-jin 10y ago

this is how it works anywhere in the world, including your home country, wherever you come from. and it actually makes sense, citizenship brings a lot of rights.

anonymousDan 10y ago
No it's not. As an Irish citizen resident in the Uk I can vote in Uk elections but not Irish ones.

CaptainDecisive 10y ago

I don't know what the actual rules were regarding eligibility, but I am a permanent resident of the UK and not a British citizen, and I voted yesterday. So some non British citizens were able to vote.

dazc 10y ago

As a UK citizen I live in Spain and I would never dream of having a say in how the Spanish people should live their lives.

anonymousDan 10y ago
Why not? As an Irish citizen living in the Uk I get to vote in British elections and frankly would find it annoying if I couldn't. Note that I can't vote in Irish elections, but British people resident in Ireland can.
- dazc 10y ago
  It's their country, not mine. I didn't know about your right to vote in elections but I'm more comfortable with that than I would be about you having a say in the EU referendum.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - anonymousDan 10y ago
    Sorry I don't get you. I was able to vote in the EU elections, as were commonwealth citizens. What I was taking issue with was the insinuation that it is ridiculous to think that EU citizens should have been able to vote.
    - dazc 10y ago
      OK, I misunderstood. But, to answer your question I didn't intend to imply it was ridiculous but I don't think any EU citizen (regardless of national citizenship) should have a say in the UK's membership of the EU, not least because they would be somewhat biased. Just my opinion.
airesQ 10y ago
It's the common market. Safety regulations on microwaves are EU wide. Is that that big of deal? (For Euro countries things are big different, but still.)

Lio 10y ago

Without considering the result of the referendum, do you know of any other country that would allow visiting citizens from another country to vote on something so serious? Just for point of discussion since since you only mention living in the UK for over 5 years but if someone had resident for 6 years or over then they could apply to become a UK citizen. For most nationalities (but not US I seem to remember) you could become a joint citizen so wouldn't really have to give anything up in the process. If becoming a UK citizen is not something someone aspires to then surely a point could be made that that person is not invested in the future of the UK. If you've only been here for 5 years and want(ed) to become a citizen in the future then you have my sympathies. For disclosure, I'm British, pro-immigration and voted to remain in the EU; I feel sad today.

anonymousDan 10y ago
But why on earth would you have bothered applying for citizenship since being an EU citizen already gives you the same rights. I think if people had actually thought ahead of time that brexit would win you would have seen a huge uptake in citizenship applications.
- Lio 10y ago
  I would guess that would come down to how you view the EU. If you view it as a single nation state or as group of cooperating partner nations.
Fuxy 10y ago
I applied for citizenship already once but since I couldn’t prove I was in the country the entire time during my first year since my employment was a bit random at the time I got rejected. My only option is to wait another year so in can prove it even though if they really wanted they could probably check their own records to see my immigration activity. It's quite difficult to get citizenship I know someone who got a 10 page letter citing a lot of random legal clauses for why she got rejected. Hell it looked almost like they were trying too hard and felt borderline racist to me but I could be imagining things.

7Z7 10y ago

>..only British citizens were asked. I'm Irish and I voted, and my wife is from an Asian commonwealth country and she voted. Neither of us are British citizens

CanSpice 10y ago

A couple of Canadian friends of mine living in England were able to vote. No, not only British citizens were asked.