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And he agreed to this to get UKIP votes in last year's election. Admittedly the pressure was building from UKIP (and eurosceptic tories), but this is very unli

by berkut 10y ago

And he agreed to this to get UKIP votes in last year's election. Admittedly the pressure was building from UKIP (and eurosceptic tories), but this is very unlikely to be in Britain's interests IMO.

dogma1138 10y ago
Labour voters voted predominantly to to leave in this referendum more so than the conservatives.
- berkut 10y ago
  That explains the result of the referendum, not the agreeing to it in the first place.
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    As a Swiss this argument kind of baffles me. Governing according to the people's will should be the norm in a democracy, not some kind of strategic play.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
      Exactly. If the majority want out then we should come out - and I say that as a Remain voter. Really interested to see what the future has in store. Thankfully us tech people should weather it better than most.
    - raverbashing 10y ago
      Yes. Because you're thinking like a Swiss Especially thinking that all decisions will be calm, collected and will result from evaluation of all sides Most people will base a vote on false facts, spite and stuff like "following their heart"
      - rjsw 10y ago
        I suspect that a country has to have referendums fairly often for them to work as intended. One problem in the UK was that people were answering different questions to the one asked.
        DanBC 10y ago
        ...and basing their answers on blatant lies. (EG We can spend some of the £350m per week on NHS.)
        arethuza 10y ago
        I can see some nasty cutbacks to things like the NHS coming - ideologically motivated but justified by our self inflicted forthcoming recession.
        sievebrain 10y ago
        How is that a "blatant lie"? Does that money go to the EU? Yes. Would that money be freed up for other uses? Yes. Would some of it end up being reallocated to the NHS? Very likely, given the politics of the UK. If you'd said ALL of it WILL go on the NHS then you'd be right, but you aren't arguing with that statement.
        raverbashing 10y ago
        http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/may/23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/may/2... Oh and by the way even Nigel Farage has said it's not like that http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-...
        DanBC 10y ago
        Borris and Farage said that £350m will go to the NHS. https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048 https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048 "Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week" https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048 https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048 "We send the EU £350 million a week Let's fund our NHS instead" The clear implication is that £350m per week is available, and that it will be spent on the NHS. £350m is the gross figure, it ignores the > £200m per week we get back. There is not going to be any increase in NHS funding. Anyone who voted leave because they thought there would be an increase in NHS funding hasn't been paying attention - the NHS has seen deep cuts in recent years and those are only going to get worse after Brexit.
    - creshal 10y ago
      Gerrymandering and other shady crap are still commonplace.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - kimi 10y ago
      And sometimes inconvenient, eg Feb 9th.
- aidos 10y ago
  What's the source for that? Not challenging you but I'd be interested to see a party breakdown.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    The Labour party heartlands in England and Wales voted pretty much unanimously in favor to leave. Jeremy Corbyn is already taking flak for this outcome: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24northnational/Labour-inquest-begins-after-heartland-areas-vote-strongly-for-Brexit-0687c608-5f48-4c80-bea9-0cb653266f13-ds http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24northnational/Labour-inq... https://next.ft.com/content/a035f3d2-39c4-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6126f https://next.ft.com/content/a035f3d2-39c4-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-for-brexit-by-labour-mps-in-eu-referendum_uk_576c6cfee4b0232d331da41b http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-f...
    - newjersey 10y ago
      This is ridiculous. London and Scotland overwhelmingly voted to stay. I have no love for labour after the alternate vote referendum but anyone who blames this on labour is clearly trying to rewrite history for scumbag David Cameron.
      - matthewmacleod 10y ago
        I'm no defender of Cameron, but the Labour party in the UK have absolutely failed – both recently and during their last period in government – to engage with long-term problems of identity, especially in the north of England. A huge number of traditionally Labour-voting areas have opted to leave the EU, and the party have to bear some responsibility for that.
      - mlnox 10y ago
        I'm not sure you can characterise Scotland as Labour anymore. Largest party in the Scottish parliament are SNP, second largest Conservative, Labour are a measly third place. As much as London is Labour supporting it's only a very small part of their supporter base, their traditional heartlands are Wales and the North of the UK, both of which overwhelmingly voted to leave.

by berkut 10y ago

And he agreed to this to get UKIP votes in last year's election. Admittedly the pressure was building from UKIP (and eurosceptic tories), but this is very unlikely to be in Britain's interests IMO.

dogma1138 10y ago

Labour voters voted predominantly to to leave in this referendum more so than the conservatives.

berkut 10y ago
That explains the result of the referendum, not the agreeing to it in the first place.
- m_mueller 10y ago
  As a Swiss this argument kind of baffles me. Governing according to the people's will should be the norm in a democracy, not some kind of strategic play.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
    Exactly. If the majority want out then we should come out - and I say that as a Remain voter. Really interested to see what the future has in store. Thankfully us tech people should weather it better than most.
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    Yes. Because you're thinking like a Swiss Especially thinking that all decisions will be calm, collected and will result from evaluation of all sides Most people will base a vote on false facts, spite and stuff like "following their heart"
    - rjsw 10y ago
      I suspect that a country has to have referendums fairly often for them to work as intended. One problem in the UK was that people were answering different questions to the one asked.
      - DanBC 10y ago
        ...and basing their answers on blatant lies. (EG We can spend some of the £350m per week on NHS.)
        arethuza 10y ago
        I can see some nasty cutbacks to things like the NHS coming - ideologically motivated but justified by our self inflicted forthcoming recession.
        sievebrain 10y ago
        How is that a "blatant lie"? Does that money go to the EU? Yes. Would that money be freed up for other uses? Yes. Would some of it end up being reallocated to the NHS? Very likely, given the politics of the UK. If you'd said ALL of it WILL go on the NHS then you'd be right, but you aren't arguing with that statement.
        raverbashing 10y ago
        http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/may/23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/may/2... Oh and by the way even Nigel Farage has said it's not like that http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-...
        DanBC 10y ago
        Borris and Farage said that £350m will go to the NHS. https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048 https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048 "Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week" https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048 https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048 "We send the EU £350 million a week Let's fund our NHS instead" The clear implication is that £350m per week is available, and that it will be spent on the NHS. £350m is the gross figure, it ignores the > £200m per week we get back. There is not going to be any increase in NHS funding. Anyone who voted leave because they thought there would be an increase in NHS funding hasn't been paying attention - the NHS has seen deep cuts in recent years and those are only going to get worse after Brexit.
  - creshal 10y ago
    Gerrymandering and other shady crap are still commonplace.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - kimi 10y ago
    And sometimes inconvenient, eg Feb 9th.
aidos 10y ago
What's the source for that? Not challenging you but I'd be interested to see a party breakdown.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  The Labour party heartlands in England and Wales voted pretty much unanimously in favor to leave. Jeremy Corbyn is already taking flak for this outcome: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24northnational/Labour-inquest-begins-after-heartland-areas-vote-strongly-for-Brexit-0687c608-5f48-4c80-bea9-0cb653266f13-ds http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24northnational/Labour-inq... https://next.ft.com/content/a035f3d2-39c4-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6126f https://next.ft.com/content/a035f3d2-39c4-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-for-brexit-by-labour-mps-in-eu-referendum_uk_576c6cfee4b0232d331da41b http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-f...
  - newjersey 10y ago
    This is ridiculous. London and Scotland overwhelmingly voted to stay. I have no love for labour after the alternate vote referendum but anyone who blames this on labour is clearly trying to rewrite history for scumbag David Cameron.
    - matthewmacleod 10y ago
      I'm no defender of Cameron, but the Labour party in the UK have absolutely failed – both recently and during their last period in government – to engage with long-term problems of identity, especially in the north of England. A huge number of traditionally Labour-voting areas have opted to leave the EU, and the party have to bear some responsibility for that.
    - mlnox 10y ago
      I'm not sure you can characterise Scotland as Labour anymore. Largest party in the Scottish parliament are SNP, second largest Conservative, Labour are a measly third place. As much as London is Labour supporting it's only a very small part of their supporter base, their traditional heartlands are Wales and the North of the UK, both of which overwhelmingly voted to leave.