6 ms·

> KDE is the only environment that can match in terms of tooling and UX, yet it is lacking some serious love nowadays. KDE? Seriously? It's one of the worst DE

by idobai 10y ago

> KDE is the only environment that can match in terms of tooling and UX, yet it is lacking some serious love nowadays. KDE? Seriously? It's one of the worst DEs on linux. Any DE which isn't based on gnome is just cheap nowadays.

pjmlp 10y ago
So which other DE on GNU/Linux does provide the same tooling and platform abstractions as KDevelop/Qt Creator do? GNOME has a very nice HIG from UX point of view, but it is stuck in C + POSIX as technology stack in what concerns developer experience. Vala is still not there and I don't believe in JavaScript for native UIs.
- idobai 10y ago
  > So which other DE on GNU/Linux does provide the same tooling and platform abstractions as KDevelop/Qt Creator do? Same or similar? It doesn't matter what they provide because I'd go with ScalaFX(http://www.scalafx.org/ http://www.scalafx.org/) + IntelliJ or Vala|Genie + Vala IDE. Mono is also an option if you're into it. > but it is stuck in C + POSIX as technology stack in what concerns developer experience. Yes, GTK isn't the newest but it isn't hard at all to develop apps with Vala/Genie(https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/GTKSample https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/GTKSample , https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Genie/GtkGuiTutorial https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Genie/GtkGuiTutorial ?) > Vala is still not there and I don't believe in JavaScript for native UIs. What do you mean? Vala is almost the defacto standard language for ubuntu/gnome apps.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    ScalaFX(http://www.scalafx.org/ http://www.scalafx.org/) + IntelliJ and Mono are not exposing any GNU/Linux specific feature. I can use the same toolchain in many other operating systems. The last time I bothered to check GNOME, there was some ongoing discussion of JavaScript becoming the official language to pair with C. Just checked Genie and Vala IDE web sites, they still need to do catch up with what Borland was doing in the 90's, let alone modern IDEs.
    - idobai 10y ago
      > ScalaFX(http://www.scalafx.org/ http://www.scalafx.org/) + IntelliJ and Mono are not exposing any GNU/Linux specific feature. Why would you need specific features? You wanted to develop desktop apps, not gnome plugins, right? > Just checked Genie and Vala IDE web sites, they still need to do catch up with what Borland was doing in the 90's, let alone modern IDEs. If you want RAD there's Glade(https://glade.gnome.org/ https://glade.gnome.org/) + GtkBuilder.
      - wolfgke 10y ago
        pjmlp asked: > So which other DE on GNU/Linux does provide the same tooling and platform abstractions as KDevelop/Qt Creator do? You answered: > Why would you need specific features? You wanted to develop desktop apps, not gnome plugins, right? Clearly KDevelop and At Creator expose GNU/Linux specific feature.
      - idobai 10y ago
        @woflgke you're going off on a tangent: it's about the maturity of tools and not about "exposing" system features. That's unrelated to desktop apps.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        No @woflgke is quite right. Software development stack for desktop apps are all about exposing the features that make a platform desired to be used.
        idobai 10y ago
        Oh, no! Software development stack for desktop apps are all about developing desktop apps for either the most profit or the most reach. Exposing features? Please, the '90s are over - no need for vendor lock-in.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        > You wanted to develop desktop apps, not gnome plugins, right? Desktop apps that expose the features that make the platform unique. > If you want RAD there's Glade(https://glade.gnome.org/ https://glade.gnome.org/) + GtkBuilder. Not even close to Delphi and C++ Builder and we are talking about 90's here. If I upgame to Blend + VS, XCode + Playgrounds, Android Studio then there is a lot of catch up to do.
mixedCase 10y ago
>Seriously? It's one of the worst DEs on linux. Any DE which isn't based on gnome is just cheap nowadays. I'll take your hot opinion and replace it with mine: Gnome (3) is hands down the worst DE in the entire Linux ecosystem and is actively harming all others by merely existing due to the mentality driving its development: "fuck everyone that's not us, we set the standards and you will like them". Currently KDE is the most polished and feature complete of the "batteries included" DEs. And even then as a developer I prefer a bare-bones tiling set-up, picking and choosing what I want and having an experience customized to my preferred workflow.

by idobai 10y ago

pjmlp 10y ago

So which other DE on GNU/Linux does provide the same tooling and platform abstractions as KDevelop/Qt Creator do? GNOME has a very nice HIG from UX point of view, but it is stuck in C + POSIX as technology stack in what concerns developer experience. Vala is still not there and I don't believe in JavaScript for native UIs.

idobai 10y ago
> So which other DE on GNU/Linux does provide the same tooling and platform abstractions as KDevelop/Qt Creator do? Same or similar? It doesn't matter what they provide because I'd go with ScalaFX(http://www.scalafx.org/ http://www.scalafx.org/) + IntelliJ or Vala|Genie + Vala IDE. Mono is also an option if you're into it. > but it is stuck in C + POSIX as technology stack in what concerns developer experience. Yes, GTK isn't the newest but it isn't hard at all to develop apps with Vala/Genie(https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/GTKSample https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/GTKSample , https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Genie/GtkGuiTutorial https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Genie/GtkGuiTutorial ?) > Vala is still not there and I don't believe in JavaScript for native UIs. What do you mean? Vala is almost the defacto standard language for ubuntu/gnome apps.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  ScalaFX(http://www.scalafx.org/ http://www.scalafx.org/) + IntelliJ and Mono are not exposing any GNU/Linux specific feature. I can use the same toolchain in many other operating systems. The last time I bothered to check GNOME, there was some ongoing discussion of JavaScript becoming the official language to pair with C. Just checked Genie and Vala IDE web sites, they still need to do catch up with what Borland was doing in the 90's, let alone modern IDEs.
  - idobai 10y ago
    > ScalaFX(http://www.scalafx.org/ http://www.scalafx.org/) + IntelliJ and Mono are not exposing any GNU/Linux specific feature. Why would you need specific features? You wanted to develop desktop apps, not gnome plugins, right? > Just checked Genie and Vala IDE web sites, they still need to do catch up with what Borland was doing in the 90's, let alone modern IDEs. If you want RAD there's Glade(https://glade.gnome.org/ https://glade.gnome.org/) + GtkBuilder.
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      pjmlp asked: > So which other DE on GNU/Linux does provide the same tooling and platform abstractions as KDevelop/Qt Creator do? You answered: > Why would you need specific features? You wanted to develop desktop apps, not gnome plugins, right? Clearly KDevelop and At Creator expose GNU/Linux specific feature.
    - idobai 10y ago
      @woflgke you're going off on a tangent: it's about the maturity of tools and not about "exposing" system features. That's unrelated to desktop apps.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        No @woflgke is quite right. Software development stack for desktop apps are all about exposing the features that make a platform desired to be used.
        idobai 10y ago
        Oh, no! Software development stack for desktop apps are all about developing desktop apps for either the most profit or the most reach. Exposing features? Please, the '90s are over - no need for vendor lock-in.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      > You wanted to develop desktop apps, not gnome plugins, right? Desktop apps that expose the features that make the platform unique. > If you want RAD there's Glade(https://glade.gnome.org/ https://glade.gnome.org/) + GtkBuilder. Not even close to Delphi and C++ Builder and we are talking about 90's here. If I upgame to Blend + VS, XCode + Playgrounds, Android Studio then there is a lot of catch up to do.

mixedCase 10y ago

>Seriously? It's one of the worst DEs on linux. Any DE which isn't based on gnome is just cheap nowadays. I'll take your hot opinion and replace it with mine: Gnome (3) is hands down the worst DE in the entire Linux ecosystem and is actively harming all others by merely existing due to the mentality driving its development: "fuck everyone that's not us, we set the standards and you will like them". Currently KDE is the most polished and feature complete of the "batteries included" DEs. And even then as a developer I prefer a bare-bones tiling set-up, picking and choosing what I want and having an experience customized to my preferred workflow.