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Except for all the US troops stationed in Germany bolster that number dramatically, in the case of Putin invading. And we can rapidly move troops and supplies o

by generj 10y ago

Except for all the US troops stationed in Germany bolster that number dramatically, in the case of Putin invading. And we can rapidly move troops and supplies over to Germany as well, along with all the other NATO troops doing the same. Germany doesn't need an invasion force, just a defense aided by dozens of other countries by treaty. It is hardly a surprise it has a fraction of it's WW2 army.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago
all the other NATO troops The mood in the USA is turning more inward. There is less appetite for NATO. The sentiment is moving more toward: if the Germans don't want to be learning to speak Russian, then they should be paying for more of their own defense. But they're not:[1] in terms of share of German GDP, military expenditures remain average at 1.2% and below the NATO recommendation of 2%. I'm personally astonished at how little of an Army Germany has today. Especially considering that just a few years earlier, Eastern Germany was studying Russian in school and was a large component of the Warsaw Pact. Poland is quite afraid of Putin. But Germany seems to have adopted a "meh" attitude toward the whole situation. They probably think that if they sell enough BMWs and Mercedes to Russia that everything will turn out OK. And probably it will. Edit: Germany doesn't need an invasion force, just a defense aided by dozens of other countries by treaty. Just want to add that I think you're wrong about this. There is a world of difference between large integrated forces, such as the US V Corps and VII Corps in Germany during the Cold War, and what exists in NATO today. Nowadays, some of those "dozens of other countries" would contribute what, perhaps a battalion or two of combat troops? Not the same as when VII Corps deployed from Germany to Iraq and defeated the Iraqis in the first Gulf War. Not the same as when V Corps deployed from Germany to Iraq and defeated the Iraqis in the second Gulf War. Both those Corps have been deactivated. Nothing took their place. Total US force in NATO was 67,000 in 2015. Not as big as one might think. Here's a "semi-official" NATO statement about force levels: Some 25 per cent of NATO members do not have an air force, 30 per cent have no naval force or maintain a navy with less than 600 sailors, and 50 per cent are fielding an active army of less than 20,000 soldiers. NATO is an Alliance of unequals [2] Finally, the other side is now run by an ambitious, intelligent, charismatic leader in Vladimir Putin. It's no longer led by Boris Yeltsin the drunken bum, and hasn't been since 1999. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr [2] http://www.nato.int/docu/review/2015/Also-in-2015/europe-defense-budget-military-soldiers/EN/ http://www.nato.int/docu/review/2015/Also-in-2015/europe-def...
- generj 10y ago
  I appreciate the statistics. Having seen them, what I would say is: in the start of a war Germany may be in a lot of trouble, but I would expect the US would come in and assist them. I agree NATO is an alliance of unequal partners. The US definitely spends above 2% GDP on .mil, and as NATO is mostly controlled by the US (and was always intended to be). I think it is reasonable to assume they will be on the hook in the event of a major invasion.

by generj 10y ago

PhantomGremlin 10y ago

all the other NATO troops The mood in the USA is turning more inward. There is less appetite for NATO. The sentiment is moving more toward: if the Germans don't want to be learning to speak Russian, then they should be paying for more of their own defense. But they're not:[1] in terms of share of German GDP, military expenditures remain average at 1.2% and below the NATO recommendation of 2%. I'm personally astonished at how little of an Army Germany has today. Especially considering that just a few years earlier, Eastern Germany was studying Russian in school and was a large component of the Warsaw Pact. Poland is quite afraid of Putin. But Germany seems to have adopted a "meh" attitude toward the whole situation. They probably think that if they sell enough BMWs and Mercedes to Russia that everything will turn out OK. And probably it will. Edit: Germany doesn't need an invasion force, just a defense aided by dozens of other countries by treaty. Just want to add that I think you're wrong about this. There is a world of difference between large integrated forces, such as the US V Corps and VII Corps in Germany during the Cold War, and what exists in NATO today. Nowadays, some of those "dozens of other countries" would contribute what, perhaps a battalion or two of combat troops? Not the same as when VII Corps deployed from Germany to Iraq and defeated the Iraqis in the first Gulf War. Not the same as when V Corps deployed from Germany to Iraq and defeated the Iraqis in the second Gulf War. Both those Corps have been deactivated. Nothing took their place. Total US force in NATO was 67,000 in 2015. Not as big as one might think. Here's a "semi-official" NATO statement about force levels: Some 25 per cent of NATO members do not have an air force, 30 per cent have no naval force or maintain a navy with less than 600 sailors, and 50 per cent are fielding an active army of less than 20,000 soldiers. NATO is an Alliance of unequals [2] Finally, the other side is now run by an ambitious, intelligent, charismatic leader in Vladimir Putin. It's no longer led by Boris Yeltsin the drunken bum, and hasn't been since 1999. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr [2] http://www.nato.int/docu/review/2015/Also-in-2015/europe-defense-budget-military-soldiers/EN/ http://www.nato.int/docu/review/2015/Also-in-2015/europe-def...

generj 10y ago
I appreciate the statistics. Having seen them, what I would say is: in the start of a war Germany may be in a lot of trouble, but I would expect the US would come in and assist them. I agree NATO is an alliance of unequal partners. The US definitely spends above 2% GDP on .mil, and as NATO is mostly controlled by the US (and was always intended to be). I think it is reasonable to assume they will be on the hook in the event of a major invasion.