4 ms·

“The EU” is not the same as the people of the EU. The French and Dutch people voted against the Maastricht Treaty when given the chance.

by kps 10y ago

Scarblac 10y ago
...through stupid yes/no referenda. No voters included people opposed to the whole idea, people disagreeing with some small part and also people who thought it didn't go far enough, but mainly people who wanted to protest the national government at the time, as usual. The Netherlands has unfortunately become much more Eurosceptic since, but let's not conclude too much from those referenda.
- Qantourisc 10y ago
  Maybe we don't need referenda but polls. Figure out WHAT is bothering people about the EU. If it's based on fiction, start up the PR machine. And repeat this AT LEAST every decade. If it's based on fact, fix the EU, or start up the PR machine explaining this cannot be fixed for the EU to work. (depending on the fact)
  - Scarblac 10y ago
    It's based on fiction, but the problem is that the fiction is created by politicians (who want to get credit for good news and blame the EU for bad news) and by the media (to get views, you need simple concepts and play on emotions). They are the PR machine. Education is the only thing that can work against it, pray that your people value it over other things.
    - Qantourisc 10y ago
      With PR machine, I mean the EU itself organizing ways to teach the people. Simple suggestion: iirc a lot of people think the EU costs a lot of money. Well you could post an add in each country with a pie diagram of the countries spendings. "your people"? You mean that from the perspective of the politicians ? Or from my perspective ?
    - mcv 10y ago
      This is a huge part of the problem. National politicians love using the EU as the scapegoat for their own unpopular proposals. Your favourite law rejected by parliament? Lobby for it in the EU, and blame the EU for it. The EU really does need something that stops that kind of abuse.
  - bayesian_horse 10y ago
    Polls is already what we have.

“The EU” is not the same as the people of the EU. The French and Dutch people voted against the Maastricht Treaty when given the chance.

by kps 10y ago

“The EU” is not the same as the people of the EU. The French and Dutch people voted against the Maastricht Treaty when given the chance.

Scarblac 10y ago

...through stupid yes/no referenda. No voters included people opposed to the whole idea, people disagreeing with some small part and also people who thought it didn't go far enough, but mainly people who wanted to protest the national government at the time, as usual. The Netherlands has unfortunately become much more Eurosceptic since, but let's not conclude too much from those referenda.

Qantourisc 10y ago
Maybe we don't need referenda but polls. Figure out WHAT is bothering people about the EU. If it's based on fiction, start up the PR machine. And repeat this AT LEAST every decade. If it's based on fact, fix the EU, or start up the PR machine explaining this cannot be fixed for the EU to work. (depending on the fact)
- Scarblac 10y ago
  It's based on fiction, but the problem is that the fiction is created by politicians (who want to get credit for good news and blame the EU for bad news) and by the media (to get views, you need simple concepts and play on emotions). They are the PR machine. Education is the only thing that can work against it, pray that your people value it over other things.
  - Qantourisc 10y ago
    With PR machine, I mean the EU itself organizing ways to teach the people. Simple suggestion: iirc a lot of people think the EU costs a lot of money. Well you could post an add in each country with a pie diagram of the countries spendings. "your people"? You mean that from the perspective of the politicians ? Or from my perspective ?
  - mcv 10y ago
    This is a huge part of the problem. National politicians love using the EU as the scapegoat for their own unpopular proposals. Your favourite law rejected by parliament? Lobby for it in the EU, and blame the EU for it. The EU really does need something that stops that kind of abuse.
- bayesian_horse 10y ago
  Polls is already what we have.