4 ms·

> Obama threatened the UK of no trade deal They don't have one, and they assumed they would get one. Why? Obama just clarified: you do not have it, and will no

> Obama threatened the UK of no trade deal They don't have one, and they assumed they would get one. Why? Obama just clarified: you do not have it, and will not get it. Why does the UK think they deserve a trade deal? Just because? > Germany threatened of no trade agreement. Same here > France threatened to flood eurotunnel with migrants France has a huge refugee camp in the border with the UK, which France is keeping out of the UK just because of the agreements that the UK has with the EU. Why should now France carry the cost of keeping those immigrants out of the UK? They obviously want to go to the UK, so let them. Do you really think that the leaving the EU has no consequence? It is not punishment, it is just voluntarily deciding to renounce the benefits of a club. When you resign your Tennis Club membership, do you complain that you are not allowed to use the showers, and to play in the courts? Those are automatic things, which come by leaving the club. You also spare the monthly rate!

sbmassey 10y ago
We shall see how these threats pan out. To me, they look like desperate attempts to prop up a failing institution, rather than serious statements of policy.
- gonvaled 10y ago
  Why do you want a treaty with a failing institution?
sverige 10y ago
> Why does the UK think they deserve a trade deal? Just because? Well, there's a four-hundred-year-old "special relationship" between the two that Obama unilaterally has decided doesn't mean anything. > When you resign your Tennis Club membership, do you complain that you are not allowed to use the showers, and to play in the courts? Those are automatic things, which come by leaving the club. You also spare the monthly rate! Um, the EU is hardly a tennis club.
- gonvaled 10y ago
  > Well, there's a four-hundred-year-old "special relationship" between the two that Obama unilaterally has decided doesn't mean anything. You'll keep your special relationship. You'll simply not get a new trade agreement. There is already one with the EU, which you are leaving. You are also getting out of all the rest of the EU agreements. But don't worry: maybe you get a trade agreement with the US after all: you are more than welcome to start negotiating dupes (or improved versions) for the agreements than you consider interesting, but it does not follow that your potential partners must agree, not even that they have any interest whatsoever in negotiating with you, which is what you are implying. Maybe they have, maybe not. For starters, a new agreement is definitely extra work, which some may just not want, or maybe even not be in a position to dedicate resources to. You are now free to fight for your interests. The rest too. > Um, the EU is hardly a tennis club. The analogy applies at the tennis club level or the galactic empire level: out of a club is out of a club. It is not "out of the bad things but keeping the good things". The club got you those good things. Now go fight for them on your own. Hey, maybe you get an even better deal!
blablablame 10y ago
Actually, the migrant camp agreement is between UK and France, not UK and EU. (Hard to find the reference now since 90% of the results are related to brexit when you search and I don't have much time)
- gonvaled 10y ago
  You are right but: > “We will not continue to guard the border for Britain if Britain is no longer in the European Union.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/03/calais-border-treaty-brexit-what-is-france-saying https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/03/calais-borde...
  - blablablame 10y ago
    I know about that, which sorta validates the gp post. This isn't a EU thing but UK-France thing which shouldn't matter if the UK is or is not in the EU and France threaten to cancel the agreement if the Leave campaign wins.
    - gonvaled 10y ago
      It seems it matters. It seems that having a hugely conflicting refugee camp in your territory is something you are prepared to do for a close ally, but nothing you will risk for a comercial partner. The EU was more than a market for the UK. You'll eventually see that.
  - tremon 10y ago
    How many other countries police their egress borders though? When I cross a country line, I fully expect to be greeted by the border guards of the country I'm entering, not the one I just left.
    - gonvaled 10y ago
      Exactly. That was a favour France was doing the UK as a sign of good will, internally risking huge amounts of political capital. It seems leaving the EU will reduce the amount of good will France is ready to spend for Britain. We are simply not in the same camp anymore.

sbmassey 10y ago

We shall see how these threats pan out. To me, they look like desperate attempts to prop up a failing institution, rather than serious statements of policy.

gonvaled 10y ago
Why do you want a treaty with a failing institution?

sverige 10y ago

> Why does the UK think they deserve a trade deal? Just because? Well, there's a four-hundred-year-old "special relationship" between the two that Obama unilaterally has decided doesn't mean anything. > When you resign your Tennis Club membership, do you complain that you are not allowed to use the showers, and to play in the courts? Those are automatic things, which come by leaving the club. You also spare the monthly rate! Um, the EU is hardly a tennis club.

gonvaled 10y ago
> Well, there's a four-hundred-year-old "special relationship" between the two that Obama unilaterally has decided doesn't mean anything. You'll keep your special relationship. You'll simply not get a new trade agreement. There is already one with the EU, which you are leaving. You are also getting out of all the rest of the EU agreements. But don't worry: maybe you get a trade agreement with the US after all: you are more than welcome to start negotiating dupes (or improved versions) for the agreements than you consider interesting, but it does not follow that your potential partners must agree, not even that they have any interest whatsoever in negotiating with you, which is what you are implying. Maybe they have, maybe not. For starters, a new agreement is definitely extra work, which some may just not want, or maybe even not be in a position to dedicate resources to. You are now free to fight for your interests. The rest too. > Um, the EU is hardly a tennis club. The analogy applies at the tennis club level or the galactic empire level: out of a club is out of a club. It is not "out of the bad things but keeping the good things". The club got you those good things. Now go fight for them on your own. Hey, maybe you get an even better deal!

blablablame 10y ago

Actually, the migrant camp agreement is between UK and France, not UK and EU. (Hard to find the reference now since 90% of the results are related to brexit when you search and I don't have much time)

gonvaled 10y ago
You are right but: > “We will not continue to guard the border for Britain if Britain is no longer in the European Union.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/03/calais-border-treaty-brexit-what-is-france-saying https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/03/calais-borde...
- blablablame 10y ago
  I know about that, which sorta validates the gp post. This isn't a EU thing but UK-France thing which shouldn't matter if the UK is or is not in the EU and France threaten to cancel the agreement if the Leave campaign wins.
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    It seems it matters. It seems that having a hugely conflicting refugee camp in your territory is something you are prepared to do for a close ally, but nothing you will risk for a comercial partner. The EU was more than a market for the UK. You'll eventually see that.
- tremon 10y ago
  How many other countries police their egress borders though? When I cross a country line, I fully expect to be greeted by the border guards of the country I'm entering, not the one I just left.
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    Exactly. That was a favour France was doing the UK as a sign of good will, internally risking huge amounts of political capital. It seems leaving the EU will reduce the amount of good will France is ready to spend for Britain. We are simply not in the same camp anymore.