6 ms·

The UK will also still carry a lot of influence over Europe through NATO.

by smegel 10y ago

gkop 10y ago
The UK itself may fracture - Scotland and/or Northern Ireland may peel off for the EU - putting NATO at risk.
- nerfhammer 10y ago
  The Scottish nationalists currently want to remain in NATO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_debate_in_the_Scottish_National_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_debate_in_the_Scottish_Na...
  - Lio 10y ago
    The SNP also want to close down the UK's nuclear submarine base at Faslane.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Looks like we might up with a "United Ireland" referendum and a Scots "Indy Ref 2" - both NI and Scotland voted pretty strongly to stay in.
- LoSboccacc 10y ago
  Also the many countries that get shitty deals like production quota or migrant restriction under Diblin III will hope for renegotiation.
sverige 10y ago
NATO's time has come and gone. Europe needs to defend itself against Russia. It's not like they lack the resources; the only thing they lack is the will. No one wants a strong German military because that has always led to catastrophe in the past, but maybe it's time for them to re-arm. I mean, what are the odds that they'll produce another megalomaniac?
- gambiting 10y ago
  Pretty good I would say. At the moment a lot of Germans are pissed off at Merkel for "letting so many immigrants in", so I wouldn't be surprised if they elect someone who is very much right-wing next time and supports deportations or even worse. I'm pretty sure that in years after WW1 people were saying that odds of having another war in just 2 decades are extremely slim. And yet.
  - pmalynin 10y ago
    "I'm pretty sure that in years after WW1 people were saying that odds of having another war in just 2 decades are extremely slim. " Well -- there was the whole "politicians lost the war" thing and general bitterness about the Rhineland.
- threeseed 10y ago
  Megalomanic ? Sure. The US chose Trump as the Republican nominee. But another Hitler or similar dictator. Not possible.
  - enkephalin 10y ago
    this is the kind of thinking responsible for history being allowed to repeat itself.
- vsl 10y ago
  > NATO's time has come and gone Europe is defenseless without NATO. All EU countries, with the exception of UK (yes), Greece (historically strong army because of Turkish threat) and Poland (rich experience with Russia) fail to meet NATO requirements on army spending. EU armies are disfunctional and barely able to provide symbolic support for the US Army in operations (remember Libya? EU couldn't sustain a few days of air-only operations). It may very well be that NATO is done. But if it is, it's because of EU members that lack any will to defend themselves. So how do you expect EU's own defense to be any better than NATO backed by USA's might (politically ambiguous as it may be these days)? Again with the exception of Poland, whose EU-hated government is serious about defending the country, but that's too little, too late.

The UK will also still carry a lot of influence over Europe through NATO.

by smegel 10y ago

The UK will also still carry a lot of influence over Europe through NATO.

gkop 10y ago

The UK itself may fracture - Scotland and/or Northern Ireland may peel off for the EU - putting NATO at risk.

nerfhammer 10y ago
The Scottish nationalists currently want to remain in NATO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_debate_in_the_Scottish_National_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_debate_in_the_Scottish_Na...
- Lio 10y ago
  The SNP also want to close down the UK's nuclear submarine base at Faslane.
arethuza 10y ago
Looks like we might up with a "United Ireland" referendum and a Scots "Indy Ref 2" - both NI and Scotland voted pretty strongly to stay in.
LoSboccacc 10y ago
Also the many countries that get shitty deals like production quota or migrant restriction under Diblin III will hope for renegotiation.

sverige 10y ago

NATO's time has come and gone. Europe needs to defend itself against Russia. It's not like they lack the resources; the only thing they lack is the will. No one wants a strong German military because that has always led to catastrophe in the past, but maybe it's time for them to re-arm. I mean, what are the odds that they'll produce another megalomaniac?

gambiting 10y ago
Pretty good I would say. At the moment a lot of Germans are pissed off at Merkel for "letting so many immigrants in", so I wouldn't be surprised if they elect someone who is very much right-wing next time and supports deportations or even worse. I'm pretty sure that in years after WW1 people were saying that odds of having another war in just 2 decades are extremely slim. And yet.
- pmalynin 10y ago
  "I'm pretty sure that in years after WW1 people were saying that odds of having another war in just 2 decades are extremely slim. " Well -- there was the whole "politicians lost the war" thing and general bitterness about the Rhineland.
threeseed 10y ago
Megalomanic ? Sure. The US chose Trump as the Republican nominee. But another Hitler or similar dictator. Not possible.
- enkephalin 10y ago
  this is the kind of thinking responsible for history being allowed to repeat itself.
vsl 10y ago
> NATO's time has come and gone Europe is defenseless without NATO. All EU countries, with the exception of UK (yes), Greece (historically strong army because of Turkish threat) and Poland (rich experience with Russia) fail to meet NATO requirements on army spending. EU armies are disfunctional and barely able to provide symbolic support for the US Army in operations (remember Libya? EU couldn't sustain a few days of air-only operations). It may very well be that NATO is done. But if it is, it's because of EU members that lack any will to defend themselves. So how do you expect EU's own defense to be any better than NATO backed by USA's might (politically ambiguous as it may be these days)? Again with the exception of Poland, whose EU-hated government is serious about defending the country, but that's too little, too late.