5 ms·

The EU needs to move carefully now: it must not punish, or slap, or threaten. Just accept the result, making clear the benefits of EU membership to the rest of

The EU needs to move carefully now: it must not punish, or slap, or threaten. Just accept the result, making clear the benefits of EU membership to the rest of the members, including suspending the benefits that the UK had. Calmly, but clearly. This will be good for everybody: UK will be happy being free (a feeling which will trump any disadvantage they may be getting by leaving the EU), and the EU can proceed with greater political integration.

guitarbill 10y ago
Except the UK won't be happy, because the unhappiness and general feeling of helplessness wasn't caused by the EU, only blamed on the EU. Plus, you know, either way roughly 50% of the population is going to be unhappy by the outcome of this referendum.
- gonvaled 10y ago
  Sorry to hear that: UK has been bitching about the EU for a long time, so I hoped that getting out would just be something to be extremely excited about. But my other point stands: I think this will definitely be good for the EU, if contagion can be avoided.
nicky0 10y ago
We were never not free, that is what is so sad about all this. That was nationalistic bullshit to whip up the less educated in support of Leave. As a Brit I am in despair this morning. I'm assuming you are in US. Imagine the feeling you will have the morning Trump wins the presidency. This is the same feeling. A gut punch. My Facebook feed is full of very upset friends. It's really depressing. Fear, hate and ignorance won.
- gpderetta 10y ago
  The difference is of course that US would have to endure Trump for 4, at most 8 years. The UK decision will affect generations.
  - AlexandrB 10y ago
    Trump is a symptom of a broken political system. I'm not convinced that in 4/8 years there wouldn't be "another Trump" if no systemic changes occur.
- mac01021 10y ago
  Interesting. Will this outcome have a profound impact on tangible aspects of your daily life? If so, what are it's most salient features? Or are you mostly just lamenting your contrymen's xenophobic and isolationist attitudes, without necessarily foreseeing a particular measurable change in your life?
  - lucozade 10y ago
    It will have a direct, negative affect on the economy in general and the service sector in particular for the next 5-7 years. Anyone in an occupation affected by international trade (not just with the EU but also where the UK was used as a conduit to the EU) will be affected. As well as students, farmers, public sector workers, pensioners. Amongst others. It has had an immediate effect on me and my co-workers (been working since 4am). It is entirely possibel my job will move to continental Europe some time over the next few years (I may or may not go with it). It is also entirely possible that it will cause a second Scottish referendum and possibly a Northern Irish one too. My current plan is to agitate for London to secede from the UK. Not sure that'll work though.
    - gonvaled 10y ago
      I feel with you my friend, but your (older?) countrymen have taken a very unpleasant decission, hoping that british exceptionalism will bring everybody ringing at your door. But we in the EU are getting a bit tired of hearing that you brits are so special, and that you deserve this treaty, and that exception, and that you will negotiate a better agreement, etc, etc. Pretty sad and angry today, but you turned out indeed to be quitters. People like you will be the ones suffering the consequences the most, so I wish you all the best!
      - lucozade 10y ago
        > hoping that british exceptionalism will bring everybody ringing at your door My guess is that they are hoping that the economic loss will be short lived and people will want to continue to trade with the 5th largest economy. My objection isn't that somehow we'll turn into a banana republic. My guess is we'll drop 3-5% GDP. It's that building growth in a slow global economy is painful. We've spent the last 8 years going through that pain and we'll just have to do it again. It's like shooting yourself in the foot but without actually being on the front line. Where I have a feeling my view diverge from yours is that the only good reason I see to be in the EU is economic. The single market has been a success and good for the UK. The rest, not so much. I think it's a mistake to leave the EU but not an unqualified one.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  > "That was nationalistic bullshit to whip up the less educated in support of Leave." I do wish people in the Remain camp would stop with this. Just because people voted to Leave, doesn't mean they were uneducated. I was on the fence about whether to stay or go for a long time, it was only after I put in research that I decided to vote to Leave. Despite what you see in the mainstream media, it's not just a bunch of racists voting to Leave. In fact, I really wish I could've voted to stay, but I didn't want to compromise my principals to do so. If you want an educated voice that was in favour of leaving, watch this clip of Tony Benn... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wFii8klNg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wFii8klNg Jeremy Corbyn also had serious misgivings about the EU too... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXTvsqUphMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXTvsqUphMc From what I've seen, neither of them were/are susceptible to jingoism. Do you see why they wanted to leave?
- Chris2048 10y ago
  > less educated > Fear, hate and ignorance won Sorry, but sour-grape bullshit. There was pro-leave bullshit, but there was also pro-remain bullshit. Characterising anyone who disagrees with your position as ignorant, or less educated is the height of arrogance. If you have so many pro-EU friends, it sounds as if you live in a bubble. You need to get out more. It is very depressing.
  - fao_ 10y ago
    > less educated Sorry, but the figures show that those who voted remain were not only older, but also less educated. (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/yougov-referendum-model/ https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/yougov-referendum-model...) And most of the evidence for the 'right choice' is clearly in the remain camp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8 (A bit uncouth, but the evidence he presents is pretty clear) I was rather undecided, leaning towards remain, until I started examining the posts by my friends. I examined most of the quotes and figures they mentioned in each article. As a result, I think my 'leave' friends are insane, because I found all of the 'leave' articles were utterly disingenuous about their quotes. They repeatedly misquoted newspapers known for extremely poor (third rate) coverage, and some of the information was downright fabrication. On the other hand, the articles posted by my friends who supported the 'remain' camp frequently listed what I consider to be 'first rate' sources (The Office of National Statistics, etc.), and the quality of the information was much higher and truthful. I found only one or two misquotes, and no fabrications. Obviously, that's purely anecdotal, but it seems to mirror the experiences that a lot of 'remain' voters have had.
    - kosmic_k 10y ago
      Yes the statistics suggest that older, less educated voted more for Leave. But aren't those also the ones who have been hit hardest by Globalization? Isn't that the big divide we're seeing here: the fact that high skilled and well educated have greatly benefited from the EU. Meanwhile the working class have faced stagnation. Leaving the EU gives up power, economic might, and so on, but I don't find it so surprising that so many would risk such a decision in hopes of breaking away from the status quo.

guitarbill 10y ago

Except the UK won't be happy, because the unhappiness and general feeling of helplessness wasn't caused by the EU, only blamed on the EU. Plus, you know, either way roughly 50% of the population is going to be unhappy by the outcome of this referendum.

gonvaled 10y ago
Sorry to hear that: UK has been bitching about the EU for a long time, so I hoped that getting out would just be something to be extremely excited about. But my other point stands: I think this will definitely be good for the EU, if contagion can be avoided.

nicky0 10y ago

We were never not free, that is what is so sad about all this. That was nationalistic bullshit to whip up the less educated in support of Leave. As a Brit I am in despair this morning. I'm assuming you are in US. Imagine the feeling you will have the morning Trump wins the presidency. This is the same feeling. A gut punch. My Facebook feed is full of very upset friends. It's really depressing. Fear, hate and ignorance won.

gpderetta 10y ago
The difference is of course that US would have to endure Trump for 4, at most 8 years. The UK decision will affect generations.
- AlexandrB 10y ago
  Trump is a symptom of a broken political system. I'm not convinced that in 4/8 years there wouldn't be "another Trump" if no systemic changes occur.
mac01021 10y ago
Interesting. Will this outcome have a profound impact on tangible aspects of your daily life? If so, what are it's most salient features? Or are you mostly just lamenting your contrymen's xenophobic and isolationist attitudes, without necessarily foreseeing a particular measurable change in your life?
- lucozade 10y ago
  It will have a direct, negative affect on the economy in general and the service sector in particular for the next 5-7 years. Anyone in an occupation affected by international trade (not just with the EU but also where the UK was used as a conduit to the EU) will be affected. As well as students, farmers, public sector workers, pensioners. Amongst others. It has had an immediate effect on me and my co-workers (been working since 4am). It is entirely possibel my job will move to continental Europe some time over the next few years (I may or may not go with it). It is also entirely possible that it will cause a second Scottish referendum and possibly a Northern Irish one too. My current plan is to agitate for London to secede from the UK. Not sure that'll work though.
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    I feel with you my friend, but your (older?) countrymen have taken a very unpleasant decission, hoping that british exceptionalism will bring everybody ringing at your door. But we in the EU are getting a bit tired of hearing that you brits are so special, and that you deserve this treaty, and that exception, and that you will negotiate a better agreement, etc, etc. Pretty sad and angry today, but you turned out indeed to be quitters. People like you will be the ones suffering the consequences the most, so I wish you all the best!
    - lucozade 10y ago
      > hoping that british exceptionalism will bring everybody ringing at your door My guess is that they are hoping that the economic loss will be short lived and people will want to continue to trade with the 5th largest economy. My objection isn't that somehow we'll turn into a banana republic. My guess is we'll drop 3-5% GDP. It's that building growth in a slow global economy is painful. We've spent the last 8 years going through that pain and we'll just have to do it again. It's like shooting yourself in the foot but without actually being on the front line. Where I have a feeling my view diverge from yours is that the only good reason I see to be in the EU is economic. The single market has been a success and good for the UK. The rest, not so much. I think it's a mistake to leave the EU but not an unqualified one.
ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "That was nationalistic bullshit to whip up the less educated in support of Leave." I do wish people in the Remain camp would stop with this. Just because people voted to Leave, doesn't mean they were uneducated. I was on the fence about whether to stay or go for a long time, it was only after I put in research that I decided to vote to Leave. Despite what you see in the mainstream media, it's not just a bunch of racists voting to Leave. In fact, I really wish I could've voted to stay, but I didn't want to compromise my principals to do so. If you want an educated voice that was in favour of leaving, watch this clip of Tony Benn... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wFii8klNg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wFii8klNg Jeremy Corbyn also had serious misgivings about the EU too... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXTvsqUphMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXTvsqUphMc From what I've seen, neither of them were/are susceptible to jingoism. Do you see why they wanted to leave?
Chris2048 10y ago
> less educated > Fear, hate and ignorance won Sorry, but sour-grape bullshit. There was pro-leave bullshit, but there was also pro-remain bullshit. Characterising anyone who disagrees with your position as ignorant, or less educated is the height of arrogance. If you have so many pro-EU friends, it sounds as if you live in a bubble. You need to get out more. It is very depressing.
- fao_ 10y ago
  > less educated Sorry, but the figures show that those who voted remain were not only older, but also less educated. (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/yougov-referendum-model/ https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/yougov-referendum-model...) And most of the evidence for the 'right choice' is clearly in the remain camp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8 (A bit uncouth, but the evidence he presents is pretty clear) I was rather undecided, leaning towards remain, until I started examining the posts by my friends. I examined most of the quotes and figures they mentioned in each article. As a result, I think my 'leave' friends are insane, because I found all of the 'leave' articles were utterly disingenuous about their quotes. They repeatedly misquoted newspapers known for extremely poor (third rate) coverage, and some of the information was downright fabrication. On the other hand, the articles posted by my friends who supported the 'remain' camp frequently listed what I consider to be 'first rate' sources (The Office of National Statistics, etc.), and the quality of the information was much higher and truthful. I found only one or two misquotes, and no fabrications. Obviously, that's purely anecdotal, but it seems to mirror the experiences that a lot of 'remain' voters have had.
  - kosmic_k 10y ago
    Yes the statistics suggest that older, less educated voted more for Leave. But aren't those also the ones who have been hit hardest by Globalization? Isn't that the big divide we're seeing here: the fact that high skilled and well educated have greatly benefited from the EU. Meanwhile the working class have faced stagnation. Leaving the EU gives up power, economic might, and so on, but I don't find it so surprising that so many would risk such a decision in hopes of breaking away from the status quo.