7 ms·

The largest importer of champange in the world? UK. Not per capita either... just the largest, in front of the US. The UK has a ton of money for luxuries and al

The largest importer of champange in the world? UK. Not per capita either... just the largest, in front of the US. The UK has a ton of money for luxuries and all kinds of things that the healthier economies of the EU desperately want access to.

vidarh 10y ago
Well, we now already have a lot less, given how far the pound has tumbled.
- beninvalencia 10y ago
  That may be so, but - at the risk of sounding like a 'Brexiter' - at least the UK has its own currency! It can be devalued. The UK has that control and can be competitive. What would happen to one of the EU countries if it voted leave but had the Euro?
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    From what I gathered they'd just issue a new currency (that would be instantly devalued everywhere though).
  - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    Sweden also has it's own currency. Sweden is in a similar situation as Britain, and their closest neighbor (Norway) has never been in the EU. I'm not saying "Swexit" is imminent, but of the northern/western EU countries it is perhaps the most likely.
  - pmontra 10y ago
    They would start printing their own currency. Impossible to keep having the same currency at the same exchange rate if you leave. It's going to end up like Argentina when they wanted to keep a fixed rate with the USD. To be seen who's going to be Argentina and who the USA in that case. By the way, this is the very problem with the Euro. If you want to have the same currency of (let's say) Germany, you should perform like Germany, or better. If you are less efficient, in any way, you're going the way of Argentina, even if not as quickly. This is why the EU should have one real central government, maybe USA style, and local governments should be like the governments of the US states.
    - sverige 10y ago
      > This is why the EU should have one real central government, maybe USA style, and local governments should be like the governments of the US states. OK, where's the central government going to sit? In Belgium? No, I don't the Germans or the French would tolerate that if they have to give up their power to act as nations and have their PMs demoted to the role of state governors. None of the member countries would either. And who among them thinks anything like a Jefferson or a Hamilton? And which portion of the citizenry would even buy into such a debate? And then there are all the language and cultural differences - actually still a problem for the EU. Next thing you know, we'd have yet another war in Europe.
      - pmontra 10y ago
        Agreed. We shoUld but we won't for a long while. We're not a nation even if it would be safer if we were. But see how young people vastly voted against Brexit. This referendum wouldn't have won in 2026 and there is hope for becoming one nation. 100 years?
    - craigyk 10y ago
      Underlying a lot of this is the fact that not everyone can perform like Germany, because, by definition, not everyone can be a net exporter. Germany has benefitted greatly from the Euro to get to its position as a net exporter.
    - Qantourisc 10y ago
      "USA style" not without actual democracy, or you are going to see A LOT more EU-exits ! For example if TTIP imports ridiculous patent rules, I'm voting leave too. Right now the EU is sane, but I draw the line at stupidity.
  - paganel 10y ago
    > It can be devalued I've lived in a country with high double-digit inflation through the 1990s (in one year it even surpassed 100%), I'd say be careful what you wish for. People seem to forget that paper money is just that, paper, and is based mostly on trust. Once trust evaporates (even if temporarily) shit's gonna definitely go wrong. But, hey, at least the decision is yours! You've got freedom!
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      Compare to: Greece.
      - paganel 10y ago
        Greece could have had it way, way worse. Ask the Argentinians, ask the Bulgarians who lived through the 1990s (I remember some of them passing the border to us (I'm from Romania) in order to sell whatever they had around the house just to have that extra cash that would pay the bills), ask us, Romanians, ask the Russians who lived through the inflation of the early '90s. You'd get only one answer: If you think things can't get worse than a certain point then you're wrong.
      - kinkdr 10y ago
        No matter how bad Greece is now, can you say with certainty that it would be better if it wasn't in the EU or Euro? I personally doubt it. It is still much better than its neighbors.
        ptaipale 10y ago
        I think EU membership is very good for Greece, euro membership not.
        lisivka 10y ago
        Why? Why stable currency is bad for Greece?
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    Countries have used foreign issued currency before; while it's likely that the same impulse that led a country to leave would also lead it to adopt is own currency, there's no fundamental reason that would have to be the case, they could afford one (or more) existing major ) or even minor, though that's less likely) currencies. That obviously leaves them at the mercy of monetary policy focused on others needs, but it may also reduce uncertainty due to lack of established trust in the new government translating into volatility of the new currency.
- imron 10y ago
  How much of that is just money markets running scared and doing stupid things. The value in 2-3 months time will be much more instructive than the night of the vote.
  - vidarh 10y ago
    But keep in mind the bad news has just started. I'm sure there will an initial bounce back, but then we're facing two years of uncertainty.
    - imron 10y ago
      But keep in mind that for the last 2 years the GBP has been on a general downwards trend [0], and in the lead up to the vote (the preceding 10 days) there was a rally that boosted the value by at least half of what was lost. The raw value of the figures seems scary (lowest value in 30 years, value of the pound dropped by 13%), but the reality is that after dipping very briefly to "the lowest level in 30 years" the GBP is currently about the same as it was in Feb this year and the value is down 4% from 2 weeks ago (not great, but nothing like a 13% downwards plunge). Edit: Also worth noting, the FTSE is up from the start of the month, and roughly equal to what it was at the start of the week. Aside from a big dip and a bounce, it's literally like nothing happened [1]. 0: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=2Y http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=2Y 1: https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^FTSE#symbol=^FTSE;range=5d https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^FTSE#symbol=^FTSE;ra...
  - nbouscal 10y ago
    If the market is doing stupid things, go make a killing. Until you've done so, you're really in no place to criticize the market.
    - imron 10y ago
      Unfortunately the market can stay irrational longer than I can stay solvent. That doesn't mean I'm not in a place to comment on what the market is doing - especially when it's a pattern that is repeated again and when major events occur. 2-3 months after the event will give a better idea of how the market values the decision to leave, rather than 1 day after. A good 1/2 of the "tumble" was only added in the 10 days leading up to the decision [0]. I might not be making a killing, but someone is. 0: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=1M http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=1M
rodgerd 10y ago
How much champagne will England be buying when the City decamps to Frankfurt?
- reillyse 10y ago
  As an Irishman, I think Dublin is well placed to take a slice of that pie.
  - spriggan3 10y ago
    Too much rain, and Temple Bar isn't what it used to be ... /s joking, I love Eire, going to work their very soon.
MagnumOpus 10y ago
> The UK has a ton of money In case you didn't notice, the pound just went down the toilet. A ton of GBP is not worth all that much suddenly. And as you say - the English need the foreign booze, so low tariffs are in their interest. The French don't want or need IPA or scrumpy, so they don't mind tariff barriers so much.
- kagamine 10y ago
  I came to HN for a reasoned and sensible discussion of Brexit, and all I got was this lousy tee-shirt. You are saying that France can easily impose import tariffs against the UK with no repercussions because the UK wants wine but doesn't need cider in return. This is the worst game of Civ ever played. France has 3 big car manufacturers, Citroen, Renault and Peugeot. They sell lots of these small cars in the UK. Many Britons holiday in France (and own property there). The French economy doesn't want to take a hit on manufacturing, exports and property prices as well as tourist francs (remember those?). Imposing tariffs on the UK would be a disaster for the French economy. It isn't going to happen. European manufacturing tariffs would be akin to routing a percentage of all trade out of Europe and into Asia.
  - pvaldes 10y ago
    Well, is a little more complicated than this. The group PSA (owner of peugeot and citroen) is not exclusively French anymore. After the low sales in the austericide years was rescued by Chinese investors (Dongfeng motor corporation). The Peugeot family has lost the full control of their companies by first time in 200 years. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-02-19/china-s-dongfeng-to-buy-stake-in-peugeot-for-800-million-euros http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-02-19/china-s-do... Renault on the other hand allied with Nissan.
    - pvaldes 10y ago
      And if someone wonder why EU didn't just try to do something to help those european companies that employ thousands of european people... Because Germany motor companies pushed hard against. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-23/lower-saxony-opposes-french-aid-for-peugeot-finance-arm http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-23/lower-saxo...

vidarh 10y ago

Well, we now already have a lot less, given how far the pound has tumbled.

beninvalencia 10y ago
That may be so, but - at the risk of sounding like a 'Brexiter' - at least the UK has its own currency! It can be devalued. The UK has that control and can be competitive. What would happen to one of the EU countries if it voted leave but had the Euro?
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  From what I gathered they'd just issue a new currency (that would be instantly devalued everywhere though).
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  Sweden also has it's own currency. Sweden is in a similar situation as Britain, and their closest neighbor (Norway) has never been in the EU. I'm not saying "Swexit" is imminent, but of the northern/western EU countries it is perhaps the most likely.
- pmontra 10y ago
  They would start printing their own currency. Impossible to keep having the same currency at the same exchange rate if you leave. It's going to end up like Argentina when they wanted to keep a fixed rate with the USD. To be seen who's going to be Argentina and who the USA in that case. By the way, this is the very problem with the Euro. If you want to have the same currency of (let's say) Germany, you should perform like Germany, or better. If you are less efficient, in any way, you're going the way of Argentina, even if not as quickly. This is why the EU should have one real central government, maybe USA style, and local governments should be like the governments of the US states.
  - sverige 10y ago
    > This is why the EU should have one real central government, maybe USA style, and local governments should be like the governments of the US states. OK, where's the central government going to sit? In Belgium? No, I don't the Germans or the French would tolerate that if they have to give up their power to act as nations and have their PMs demoted to the role of state governors. None of the member countries would either. And who among them thinks anything like a Jefferson or a Hamilton? And which portion of the citizenry would even buy into such a debate? And then there are all the language and cultural differences - actually still a problem for the EU. Next thing you know, we'd have yet another war in Europe.
    - pmontra 10y ago
      Agreed. We shoUld but we won't for a long while. We're not a nation even if it would be safer if we were. But see how young people vastly voted against Brexit. This referendum wouldn't have won in 2026 and there is hope for becoming one nation. 100 years?
  - craigyk 10y ago
    Underlying a lot of this is the fact that not everyone can perform like Germany, because, by definition, not everyone can be a net exporter. Germany has benefitted greatly from the Euro to get to its position as a net exporter.
  - Qantourisc 10y ago
    "USA style" not without actual democracy, or you are going to see A LOT more EU-exits ! For example if TTIP imports ridiculous patent rules, I'm voting leave too. Right now the EU is sane, but I draw the line at stupidity.
- paganel 10y ago
  > It can be devalued I've lived in a country with high double-digit inflation through the 1990s (in one year it even surpassed 100%), I'd say be careful what you wish for. People seem to forget that paper money is just that, paper, and is based mostly on trust. Once trust evaporates (even if temporarily) shit's gonna definitely go wrong. But, hey, at least the decision is yours! You've got freedom!
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    Compare to: Greece.
    - paganel 10y ago
      Greece could have had it way, way worse. Ask the Argentinians, ask the Bulgarians who lived through the 1990s (I remember some of them passing the border to us (I'm from Romania) in order to sell whatever they had around the house just to have that extra cash that would pay the bills), ask us, Romanians, ask the Russians who lived through the inflation of the early '90s. You'd get only one answer: If you think things can't get worse than a certain point then you're wrong.
    - kinkdr 10y ago
      No matter how bad Greece is now, can you say with certainty that it would be better if it wasn't in the EU or Euro? I personally doubt it. It is still much better than its neighbors.
      - ptaipale 10y ago
        I think EU membership is very good for Greece, euro membership not.
        lisivka 10y ago
        Why? Why stable currency is bad for Greece?
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Countries have used foreign issued currency before; while it's likely that the same impulse that led a country to leave would also lead it to adopt is own currency, there's no fundamental reason that would have to be the case, they could afford one (or more) existing major ) or even minor, though that's less likely) currencies. That obviously leaves them at the mercy of monetary policy focused on others needs, but it may also reduce uncertainty due to lack of established trust in the new government translating into volatility of the new currency.
imron 10y ago
How much of that is just money markets running scared and doing stupid things. The value in 2-3 months time will be much more instructive than the night of the vote.
- vidarh 10y ago
  But keep in mind the bad news has just started. I'm sure there will an initial bounce back, but then we're facing two years of uncertainty.
  - imron 10y ago
    But keep in mind that for the last 2 years the GBP has been on a general downwards trend [0], and in the lead up to the vote (the preceding 10 days) there was a rally that boosted the value by at least half of what was lost. The raw value of the figures seems scary (lowest value in 30 years, value of the pound dropped by 13%), but the reality is that after dipping very briefly to "the lowest level in 30 years" the GBP is currently about the same as it was in Feb this year and the value is down 4% from 2 weeks ago (not great, but nothing like a 13% downwards plunge). Edit: Also worth noting, the FTSE is up from the start of the month, and roughly equal to what it was at the start of the week. Aside from a big dip and a bounce, it's literally like nothing happened [1]. 0: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=2Y http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=2Y 1: https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^FTSE#symbol=^FTSE;range=5d https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^FTSE#symbol=^FTSE;ra...
- nbouscal 10y ago
  If the market is doing stupid things, go make a killing. Until you've done so, you're really in no place to criticize the market.
  - imron 10y ago
    Unfortunately the market can stay irrational longer than I can stay solvent. That doesn't mean I'm not in a place to comment on what the market is doing - especially when it's a pattern that is repeated again and when major events occur. 2-3 months after the event will give a better idea of how the market values the decision to leave, rather than 1 day after. A good 1/2 of the "tumble" was only added in the 10 days leading up to the decision [0]. I might not be making a killing, but someone is. 0: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=1M http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=1M

rodgerd 10y ago

How much champagne will England be buying when the City decamps to Frankfurt?

reillyse 10y ago
As an Irishman, I think Dublin is well placed to take a slice of that pie.
- spriggan3 10y ago
  Too much rain, and Temple Bar isn't what it used to be ... /s joking, I love Eire, going to work their very soon.

MagnumOpus 10y ago

> The UK has a ton of money In case you didn't notice, the pound just went down the toilet. A ton of GBP is not worth all that much suddenly. And as you say - the English need the foreign booze, so low tariffs are in their interest. The French don't want or need IPA or scrumpy, so they don't mind tariff barriers so much.

kagamine 10y ago
I came to HN for a reasoned and sensible discussion of Brexit, and all I got was this lousy tee-shirt. You are saying that France can easily impose import tariffs against the UK with no repercussions because the UK wants wine but doesn't need cider in return. This is the worst game of Civ ever played. France has 3 big car manufacturers, Citroen, Renault and Peugeot. They sell lots of these small cars in the UK. Many Britons holiday in France (and own property there). The French economy doesn't want to take a hit on manufacturing, exports and property prices as well as tourist francs (remember those?). Imposing tariffs on the UK would be a disaster for the French economy. It isn't going to happen. European manufacturing tariffs would be akin to routing a percentage of all trade out of Europe and into Asia.
- pvaldes 10y ago
  Well, is a little more complicated than this. The group PSA (owner of peugeot and citroen) is not exclusively French anymore. After the low sales in the austericide years was rescued by Chinese investors (Dongfeng motor corporation). The Peugeot family has lost the full control of their companies by first time in 200 years. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-02-19/china-s-dongfeng-to-buy-stake-in-peugeot-for-800-million-euros http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-02-19/china-s-do... Renault on the other hand allied with Nissan.
  - pvaldes 10y ago
    And if someone wonder why EU didn't just try to do something to help those european companies that employ thousands of european people... Because Germany motor companies pushed hard against. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-23/lower-saxony-opposes-french-aid-for-peugeot-finance-arm http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-23/lower-saxo...