24 ms·

As someone born and raised in a communist country (what is now Czech Republic), I can tell you it is precisely because we DID NOT FORGET what it was like, that

by Radim 10y ago

As someone born and raised in a communist country (what is now Czech Republic), I can tell you it is precisely because we DID NOT FORGET what it was like, that we're against the direction EU is going [0]. The parallels between our (still recent) past are absolutely striking: EU's propaganda, censorship efforts, ideological idiocy that nobody takes seriously any more (incl. economic). But most of all, there's the scary disconnect between how real people live their lives vs what the official "party line" dictates. We're re-learning to read between the propaganda lines, again. IMO we don't need condescending comments about how stupid everyone is (populists!), nor a platform explaining why this "central planning" ideology is appealing but very dangerous. We know very well, and we vote accordingly. [0] "we" = majority of the country: http://zpravy.idnes.cz/ctenari-idnes-cz-anketa-czexit-de5-/domaci.aspx?c=A160621_155453_domaci_jw http://zpravy.idnes.cz/ctenari-idnes-cz-anketa-czexit-de5-/d...

toyg 10y ago
Honestly? Eastern Europeans, of all people, got massively subsidized by the EU. Biting the hands that feed you is a great recipe for building resentment and mistrust, which brings conflict and ultimately war.
- Radim 10y ago
  That's kinda the point, isn't it? Wouldn't a voluntary exchange of trade, labour and policies, in place of "a feeding hand" (what a condescending remark!) be better for everyone? By the way, the subsidies feed mostly the politicians, and the hands of their well-connected friends who are the true benefactors. And that's no coincidence -- as I said, we've already lived through the reality disconnect that is the result of top-down social engineering. What the linked poll shows you is that normal people are telling you to take your oh-so-generous subsidies and shove them. If it means being part of a political union they have no say in.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > the subsidies feed mostly the politicians, and the hands of their well-connected friends who are the true benefactors. You'll need to provide some data. It sounds like what any anti-EU propagandist would first think of asserting. And what about the businesses with access to the world's largest market?
    - Radim 10y ago
      Sure. The squandering of EU subsidy money on nonsensical "well chosen" projects is hardly a tinfoil hat conspiracy. It's been covered by most major media in detail [0]. Regarding businesses: what about them? I happen to run a business, and dealing with EU partners and clients is actually a (marginally) greater nuisance than non-EU partners and clients. Are you aware of the complexity of the inter-EU VAT regulations and laws, especially for SMEs? [1] [0] http://hledej.idnes.cz/clanky.aspx?q=zma%F8en%E9+dotace http://hledej.idnes.cz/clanky.aspx?q=zma%F8en%E9+dotace [1] https://euobserver.com/opinion/129961 https://euobserver.com/opinion/129961
hackuser 10y ago
The EU is nothing like the Soviet Union. That is itself propaganda, and undermines everything else you write. The fact that a majority of a country believes populist propaganda is, unfortunately, not evidence of anything but the power of populist propaganda. It seems to me the Czech Republic has become far wealthier in the EU, in large part because of access to EU markets and due to the stability of EU institutions.

by Radim 10y ago

toyg 10y ago

Honestly? Eastern Europeans, of all people, got massively subsidized by the EU. Biting the hands that feed you is a great recipe for building resentment and mistrust, which brings conflict and ultimately war.

Radim 10y ago
That's kinda the point, isn't it? Wouldn't a voluntary exchange of trade, labour and policies, in place of "a feeding hand" (what a condescending remark!) be better for everyone? By the way, the subsidies feed mostly the politicians, and the hands of their well-connected friends who are the true benefactors. And that's no coincidence -- as I said, we've already lived through the reality disconnect that is the result of top-down social engineering. What the linked poll shows you is that normal people are telling you to take your oh-so-generous subsidies and shove them. If it means being part of a political union they have no say in.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > the subsidies feed mostly the politicians, and the hands of their well-connected friends who are the true benefactors. You'll need to provide some data. It sounds like what any anti-EU propagandist would first think of asserting. And what about the businesses with access to the world's largest market?
  - Radim 10y ago
    Sure. The squandering of EU subsidy money on nonsensical "well chosen" projects is hardly a tinfoil hat conspiracy. It's been covered by most major media in detail [0]. Regarding businesses: what about them? I happen to run a business, and dealing with EU partners and clients is actually a (marginally) greater nuisance than non-EU partners and clients. Are you aware of the complexity of the inter-EU VAT regulations and laws, especially for SMEs? [1] [0] http://hledej.idnes.cz/clanky.aspx?q=zma%F8en%E9+dotace http://hledej.idnes.cz/clanky.aspx?q=zma%F8en%E9+dotace [1] https://euobserver.com/opinion/129961 https://euobserver.com/opinion/129961

hackuser 10y ago

The EU is nothing like the Soviet Union. That is itself propaganda, and undermines everything else you write. The fact that a majority of a country believes populist propaganda is, unfortunately, not evidence of anything but the power of populist propaganda. It seems to me the Czech Republic has become far wealthier in the EU, in large part because of access to EU markets and due to the stability of EU institutions.