6 ms·

Now well over 4:1 for remain. The change in betting ods is extremely interesting from a statistical modelling point of view. http://www.oddschecker.com/politic

Now well over 4:1 for remain. The change in betting ods is extremely interesting from a statistical modelling point of view. http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-refe... I don't care about the result. I'm more interested in how our statistical modelling tools failed us. Thoughts? Did opinions change overnight? Did the polling miss a demographic?

fdsaaf 10y ago
Bradley effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect (Also known as social desirability bias) Lots of people say in public that they're in favor of immigration, unity, and tolerance, because lots of people will call you a bigot if you don't, but in private, harbor old-fashioned ideas about nationalism, and well, polling involves a human and voting happens in private.
- evanpw 10y ago
  But if this is a known effect, why were the betting markets also wrong?
  - fdsaaf 10y ago
    I think betting markets are prone to wishful thinking; there's no guarantee that errors of reasoning toward one side or the other will cancel out, since it's perfectly reasonable to imagine that errors in one direction are more common.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      There's no guarantee, but the bookie is watching his, uh, book and adjusting the odds to make sure the payouts come from losing bets rather than his pocket.
      - Lxr 10y ago
        Not on Betfair, it's an exchange. They make money either way.
  - selectron 10y ago
    The betting markets had somewhere around a 35% of Brexit. So it wasn't that unlikely according to the betting markets.
    - evanpw 10y ago
      I saw 15% before election data started coming out. That's pretty wrong.
      - selectron 10y ago
        It looks like the average was around 35%: http://predictwise.com/politics/uk-politics http://predictwise.com/politics/uk-politics Interestingly the odds went down pretty sharply as the election came closer, but it is not really fair to pick the lowest odds when evaluating how good the predictions were. But even 15% odds are not really all that unlikely, about a 1 in 6 chance. It isn't as though pundits were predicting leave.
  - Callmenorm 10y ago
    Or maybe people are using the betting markets to hedge. Is that a dumb thing to do?
    - evanpw 10y ago
      I think that hedging would have the opposite effect. The pound is tanking (30-year low right now), so if your salary is paid in pounds, it would have made sense to bet on Leave. I'm not sure who wins economically from leaving. British companies that compete with continental ones?
- evanpw 10y ago
  Makes me wonder about the Trump presidential odds: https://electionbettingodds.com/ https://electionbettingodds.com/. They're not even as wide as the Brexit odds were earlier today.
  - fdsaaf 10y ago
    Well, since we have much more information about presidential elections (which happen regularly) than we have about brexit (which is mostly without precedent), you could argue that election 2016 forecasts are probably more accurate. I don't think that's the case though. I predict a Trump victory on the basis of a very strong social desirability bias and an immense amount of silent resentment against current social justice orthodoxy, especially as it pertains to speech restrictions on campus and in the workplace.
    - toyg 10y ago
      Yup. I got some money on Trump too, and tbh I was tempted to double-down on it now that we know he's facing a 100% "establishment" "PC" candidate. I've gone through Italian politics in the '90s. We tend to be pioneers when it comes to political monstrosities.
    - chroma 10y ago
      Just curious, but have you acted upon this belief and bet on Trump in the prediction markets?
      - fdsaaf 10y ago
        I don't have that much confidence in my analysis. I'm an amateur.
notahacker 10y ago
Pollsters were never confident of this result, with their adjusted and unadjusted results being all over the place, and were cautiously predicting Leave victories as recently as last week. There weren't any relevant precedents for them to test their models against, and the biggest factor in the Leave vote appears to be high turnout from demographics that rarely vote in other elections. I've found it odd that the markets were far more confident in poll findings than the pollsters but assume that the bets were mainly placed on the simple heuristic that poll results tend to understate voters caution and attachment to the status quo.

fdsaaf 10y ago

Bradley effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect (Also known as social desirability bias) Lots of people say in public that they're in favor of immigration, unity, and tolerance, because lots of people will call you a bigot if you don't, but in private, harbor old-fashioned ideas about nationalism, and well, polling involves a human and voting happens in private.

evanpw 10y ago
But if this is a known effect, why were the betting markets also wrong?
- fdsaaf 10y ago
  I think betting markets are prone to wishful thinking; there's no guarantee that errors of reasoning toward one side or the other will cancel out, since it's perfectly reasonable to imagine that errors in one direction are more common.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    There's no guarantee, but the bookie is watching his, uh, book and adjusting the odds to make sure the payouts come from losing bets rather than his pocket.
    - Lxr 10y ago
      Not on Betfair, it's an exchange. They make money either way.
- selectron 10y ago
  The betting markets had somewhere around a 35% of Brexit. So it wasn't that unlikely according to the betting markets.
  - evanpw 10y ago
    I saw 15% before election data started coming out. That's pretty wrong.
    - selectron 10y ago
      It looks like the average was around 35%: http://predictwise.com/politics/uk-politics http://predictwise.com/politics/uk-politics Interestingly the odds went down pretty sharply as the election came closer, but it is not really fair to pick the lowest odds when evaluating how good the predictions were. But even 15% odds are not really all that unlikely, about a 1 in 6 chance. It isn't as though pundits were predicting leave.
- Callmenorm 10y ago
  Or maybe people are using the betting markets to hedge. Is that a dumb thing to do?
  - evanpw 10y ago
    I think that hedging would have the opposite effect. The pound is tanking (30-year low right now), so if your salary is paid in pounds, it would have made sense to bet on Leave. I'm not sure who wins economically from leaving. British companies that compete with continental ones?
evanpw 10y ago
Makes me wonder about the Trump presidential odds: https://electionbettingodds.com/ https://electionbettingodds.com/. They're not even as wide as the Brexit odds were earlier today.
- fdsaaf 10y ago
  Well, since we have much more information about presidential elections (which happen regularly) than we have about brexit (which is mostly without precedent), you could argue that election 2016 forecasts are probably more accurate. I don't think that's the case though. I predict a Trump victory on the basis of a very strong social desirability bias and an immense amount of silent resentment against current social justice orthodoxy, especially as it pertains to speech restrictions on campus and in the workplace.
  - toyg 10y ago
    Yup. I got some money on Trump too, and tbh I was tempted to double-down on it now that we know he's facing a 100% "establishment" "PC" candidate. I've gone through Italian politics in the '90s. We tend to be pioneers when it comes to political monstrosities.
  - chroma 10y ago
    Just curious, but have you acted upon this belief and bet on Trump in the prediction markets?
    - fdsaaf 10y ago
      I don't have that much confidence in my analysis. I'm an amateur.

notahacker 10y ago

Pollsters were never confident of this result, with their adjusted and unadjusted results being all over the place, and were cautiously predicting Leave victories as recently as last week. There weren't any relevant precedents for them to test their models against, and the biggest factor in the Leave vote appears to be high turnout from demographics that rarely vote in other elections. I've found it odd that the markets were far more confident in poll findings than the pollsters but assume that the bets were mainly placed on the simple heuristic that poll results tend to understate voters caution and attachment to the status quo.