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I want to like the EU and this in fact what was pushed really hard for by the school system at least in Germany. But I can't fail to notice its many disadvantag

I want to like the EU and this in fact what was pushed really hard for by the school system at least in Germany. But I can't fail to notice its many disadvantages. It is fundamentally even less democratic than the representative democracies it unites, supposedly run by technocrats that in fact follow agendas set by corporations/industry, with decisions that get sold to the public as inevitable. I hate what the Bologna reforms did to higher education for example, but there are many other instances where EU decisions had extremely negative impact, with sometimes almost no popular support. Point being not only right wing basket cases don't like the EU. The far left doesn't really like it either. It is a project conceived by US planners and executed by the French and German elites pushed onto the rest of the continent. Whenever there is talk about the "democracy deficit" it is brushed aside as something that will be fixed once Europe has become more integrated.

hiram112 10y ago
>It is a project conceived by US planners... Any proof of that? From a US perspective, I can't see how a unified Europe would benefit the US - neither economically nor militarily. The EU is the only state (besides China with 4x the population of the US) that can compare to the US economy. Dealing with smaller countries gives the US an advantage compared with similar deals with the EU itself. A unified EU military would be the only state both large enough and advanced enough to pose a valid military challenge to US hegemony.
- leakybit 10y ago
  It benefited Wall Street pretty good after they sold hundreds of billions in bonds that were in reality; junk.
- hackuser 10y ago
  Europe is a US ally; the US wants them stronger. Also, dis-unified Europe cost the US quite a bit in the first half of the 20th century.
tomp 10y ago
> I hate what the Bologna reforms did to higher education A bit off-topic, but what exactly do you hate about Bologna? I liked it that it shortened my studies (math) from 4 years to 3, although I would have appreciated a bit more depth (more elective subjects)... But then, I only have a very limited perspective, so I'm very curious about what other people think, and what possible improvements they see.
- orbifold 10y ago
  I don't like that especially in Germany it has reduced the depth to which people were expected to study a subject to receive a degree (A German diploma in math took 5 years) and that they introduced grades that mattered along the way. This pushes students to narrow their focus and optimise good exam results. In the old system you had two exams that mattered, one oral exam after two years and your final grade was determined by a set of oral exams and your thesis. The result is as far as I can tell from personal experience that the quality of an average master students in Math and Physics is now significantly lower than that of diploma students. They also introduced very interesting language, you study Modules, each of which give you points. In the end you are supposed to end up as a nice exchangeable semi-educated narrowly focussed cog in some big corporation.
bjourne 10y ago
This is exactly why I also don't like the EU. Not the racist rhetoric UKIP is using, but because the EU is deeply undemocratic. The EU is one whole layer of extra politicians above those that we have already elected in local parliaments. It makes the distance between me and those who are in power much greater, both physically and metaphorically. Plus, Germany, the UK and France are the big players in the EU. Naturally the union favors their agenda and overrules smaller member countries.

hiram112 10y ago

>It is a project conceived by US planners... Any proof of that? From a US perspective, I can't see how a unified Europe would benefit the US - neither economically nor militarily. The EU is the only state (besides China with 4x the population of the US) that can compare to the US economy. Dealing with smaller countries gives the US an advantage compared with similar deals with the EU itself. A unified EU military would be the only state both large enough and advanced enough to pose a valid military challenge to US hegemony.

leakybit 10y ago
It benefited Wall Street pretty good after they sold hundreds of billions in bonds that were in reality; junk.
hackuser 10y ago
Europe is a US ally; the US wants them stronger. Also, dis-unified Europe cost the US quite a bit in the first half of the 20th century.

tomp 10y ago

> I hate what the Bologna reforms did to higher education A bit off-topic, but what exactly do you hate about Bologna? I liked it that it shortened my studies (math) from 4 years to 3, although I would have appreciated a bit more depth (more elective subjects)... But then, I only have a very limited perspective, so I'm very curious about what other people think, and what possible improvements they see.

orbifold 10y ago
I don't like that especially in Germany it has reduced the depth to which people were expected to study a subject to receive a degree (A German diploma in math took 5 years) and that they introduced grades that mattered along the way. This pushes students to narrow their focus and optimise good exam results. In the old system you had two exams that mattered, one oral exam after two years and your final grade was determined by a set of oral exams and your thesis. The result is as far as I can tell from personal experience that the quality of an average master students in Math and Physics is now significantly lower than that of diploma students. They also introduced very interesting language, you study Modules, each of which give you points. In the end you are supposed to end up as a nice exchangeable semi-educated narrowly focussed cog in some big corporation.

bjourne 10y ago

This is exactly why I also don't like the EU. Not the racist rhetoric UKIP is using, but because the EU is deeply undemocratic. The EU is one whole layer of extra politicians above those that we have already elected in local parliaments. It makes the distance between me and those who are in power much greater, both physically and metaphorically. Plus, Germany, the UK and France are the big players in the EU. Naturally the union favors their agenda and overrules smaller member countries.