6 ms·

My partner and I - both well-educated and well-employed professionals - sketched out our long-term financial plan recently. The only way we envisioned owning pr

My partner and I - both well-educated and well-employed professionals - sketched out our long-term financial plan recently. The only way we envisioned owning property would be to build our own a considerable distance away from our small city's center. That alone proved to be a significant part of our budget, which is already under considerable pressure from student loans and car payments. We estimated the expenses for future children and the picture was not pretty. Then we factored in higher education, assuming costs rise at the same rate as the last 30 years - roughly our lifetimes - and concluded that by the time our future kids are at college age, they will likely be paying for most of it themselves, with debt they may hold their entire lives. So we aren't having any. EDIT: Just to be clear, I am not simply saying that I am forgoing children because their college costs would be too high, I'm saying EVERYTHING is too expensive, and college in 20-30 years, assuming current rates, will be forbiddingly so.

atarian 10y ago
Why not send your future kids to community college and then have them transfer?
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  If I understand this strategy, you send them to community college for the first two years, where they take their general ed requirements. Then they transfer to a "real" (expensive) college for the last two years, for the deeper/more specialized courses. It's not a bad strategy (we may do it with one of our children). But if higher cost is the problem, this solves less than half of it. Half because they still go to an expensive college for two years. Less than half, because the two years at a community college aren't free, either.
  - TwiztidK 10y ago
    Community College is cheap, really cheap. I took CC classes during the summer while I was in school, working an internship at the same time, to knock out some of my humanities classes. In total, it cost me around $1500 to take 15 credit hours of classes there (compared to $7k + fees for the same at my college). But, you're right, it does solve a little less than half the cost. Which is awesome! If you wanted to go to a nice restaurant and could buy a Groupon that would let you get $100 of food for $55, that would be a great deal, despite it not being free.
    - thoth 10y ago
      The linked article specifically mentions that the CC safety net is fraying as well - costs for middle class income brackets range 11% to 22% instead of 16% to 45% (across various other options and states; unfortunately all 8 states mentioned are different so no direct comparisons). So yeah, they are cheaper but not all of them necessarily offer the same discount your anecdote provides.
    - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
      By the way, while we're on such topics, don't forget CLEP tests. You learn a topic well enough to pass the test, pay your fee, take a two-hour test, and (if you pass) wind up with college credit that is recognized by many (most?) universities.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Assuming they can get into college after that. If you think competition is fierce in a world of 7 billion people, imagine how it will look with 8 or 9 or 10.
  - billmalarky 10y ago
    You're making a lot of negative predictions about a world that is changing pretty drastically. Maybe you're right and we're headed for a dystopian future. While that's certainly a possibility, there are many other positive possibilities your children could experience (psuedo post-scarcity through the singularity, virtual reality, etc). I'd wager the odds are quite good that life will be a more positive experience in the next 150 years than in the period of "dawn of mankind" - 1900.
    - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
      If I have kids and am right about humanity's bleak future, I both sacrificed my well-being to support children, and brought more sufferers into this world.
- akhilcacharya 10y ago
  I spent my last 2 years of high school getting an AS before going to my state school. I wouldn't recommend it to high achieving students, at all.
  - eanzenberg 10y ago
    You wouldn't.. why?
    - akhilcacharya 10y ago
      1) I'm very concerned about the perception of having an AS. This may not be a rational concern, but I've removed it from my resume to reduce risk. 2) Opportunities at CC's are limited compared to even non-flagship state universities (no research, etc), although you can of course still get other opportunities at other local universities. 3) You're effectively tied to your state school. I'm lucky that NC has one well-regarded flagship, but not everybody wants to go to their state school anyway. Higher level coursework won't transfer to private universities. 4) My early college program limited what coursework we could take, so I still need 2.5-4 years to graduate with a CS degree from my state school even with significant credit which negates the cost advantage in my case. 5) The peer group can be hit or miss. With that said, there were __many__ very intelligent and hardworking people in my classes. With all that said, some people can still make the best of it. My school graduated their first Harvard admit this year (but then again, he might have been legacy). We've had 2 Duke admits, 1 Cornell - the rest go to UNC or lower ranked schools like myself. Doing it again I would have probably gone to my state's boarding school instead.
      - aceinaday 10y ago
        Why would you list an AS on your resume? If the idea is to transfer to one of the state schools and finish up there, wouldn't you just list your BS?
        akhilcacharya 10y ago
        I know some people that listed their AS too. Of course you don't need to.
- quaffapint 10y ago
  That's the plan for our son who will be going in a couple years. He doesn't know what he wants to do, so why pay much more (not that its super cheap, but cheaper than many other options). I myself transferred schools multiple times - the greatest thing is the credits transfer, but the gpa does not, so if you screw up a few classes in the beginning, you can reset that. In the end people really only look what you list on your resume - not the first x years, but where you graduated from and how well you did at the end.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ruste 10y ago
    My transfer credit was included in my GPA. :( It isn't too bad, but still.
sp332 10y ago
Sorry if I misunderstood, but you're not having kids because you might not afford to send them to college? Edit: I just wanted to point out that the sticker price is usually not what people pay for college. Grants are very common and so are scholarships of various kinds and sizes. But beyond all that, you can opt-in to this repayment plan https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/education/higher-education/ensuring-that-student-loans-are-affordable https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/education/higher-education... which caps the amount per year and also the total amount that borrowers will pay for college, based on their income.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  We aren't going to have kids we can't support. Right now we absolutely cannot, and even in five years time things will still be looking relatively tight. We might be able by then to scrape together a down payment on a mortgage, or have a child, but not both. The biological window gets smaller by the day. Why bother?
  - tn13 10y ago
    Makes sense.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - SilasX 10y ago
    Personally, I don't think that's wise. 20 years is a long time and the whole setup is getting more ridiculous by the day. I fully expect that it will collapse under its own weight before your kids have to make the decision. (Nothing necessarily explosive, just something like "alternate routes into white-collar well-paid entry-level work will be well-trod at that point, avoiding the need for expensive college or bidding it down.")
    - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
      I would like to believe you. Really I would. But I have to plan for the future that I expect, not the one I want.
tptacek 10y ago
My impression from my peer group is that most people from my generation that went to college take on significant debt to do it. Isn't this basically the normal path people take to pay their way through college? (I didn't go.) Having kids is obviously a deeply personal decision and don't think I'm second-guessing you, but college funding is probably not a dispositive concern.
- vkou 10y ago
  Most people are not children of two working, well-educated professionals. If that family can't afford to give their children a future without selling them into debt, the American dream is truly dead.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I mean, I agree that they're not children of the elite, but they go to college anyways. College debt is annoying, but I'd be surprised to hear it's a top 5 concern for any of them. For whatever it's worth, the idea that the "American Dream" requires a college education is itself a little weird.
    - gist 10y ago
      Look everybody quite honestly feels entitled. The fact is not everyone can go to the best schools or they wouldn't be the best schools. (Because they are the best because they are selective, not just because they give a good education). And even if everyone got the same good education there will still be a pecking order of people that get selected as the best and the brightest. No way around that. But people don't want to hear that they want to hear that everyone can go to Harvard and get a high paying job and that we are all equal. But that's not the way the world works (or even the way the sports or entertainment business works).
    - sedachv 10y ago
      > College debt is annoying, but I'd be surprised to hear it's a top 5 concern for any of them. Yes, all those people having to live incognito to avoid collection agencies or even fleeing abroad (http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/23/pf/college/student_loan_fugitives/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/23/pf/college/student_loan_fugi...) certainly do not figure it as a concern.
talmand 10y ago
And that's how we get Idiocracy.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Precisely. At this rate, I don't see much advantage in bringing a few snowflakes into this world to combat the tidal waves of ignorance. And that's assuming I can give them a childhood that was even a fraction of mine.
  - Sacho 10y ago
    Perhaps you havent considered all the possible options. What about wiping your debt, saving money and moving to a developing country to start your family?
    - antisthenes 10y ago
      I am not rm_-rf, but I certainly would not hedge my future children's future on the stability of a developing country. That's barring the other multitude of issues associated with moving (child isolation, increased competition, lack of certain infrastructure, new languages, loss of social support network, etc.)
CyberDildonics 10y ago
You aren't having kids because they would go into debt if they decide to go to college? You are aware that the bulk of human knowledge is available for free on the internet right?
- vkou 10y ago
  You are aware that for most professions, having a college on your CV is minimum table stakes, right? Not everyone works in CS.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  As I said elsewhere, there is no network in learning to code by yourself, or what have you. Assuming my children could learn everything they need from the Internet to give them stable, well paying jobs while competing against twice the number of global applicants as I did is truly wishful thinking.
  - CyberDildonics 10y ago
    This 'college is about networking' argument is one of the weakest rationalizations out there, as if it isn't possible to walk up to someone and show them directly that you can program using something you wrote and an ipad. Anyone can also make a webpage and show off a demo by sending someone a link. Do you know who students meet at college? Other students trying to get jobs and professors who overwhelmingly don't even have ties to professionals in their industry. Every interview but one I've gotten by going through a process that anyone could go through and it has been my work that has stood out.
billmalarky 10y ago
"assuming costs rise at the same rate as the last 30 years" I just can't believe that will happen. The millennial generation has been burned HARD by higher education. I'm guessing the demand for expensive programs loaded with amenities that provide little value will plummet by the time their kids come of age. I expect huge growth in low-frills low-cost technical programs. Also, the insane cost of higher education is mainly propped up by easy access to loans that are practically impossible to discharge via bankruptcy. If this ever changes (and there will be a lot of political will to when millennials are the main voter base) expect the price to practically collapse overnight.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Theres no network, no alumni connection, no shared sense of pride for an alma mater in a low cost no frills technical program. Like they say, it's not what you know, it's who you know.
  - spdionis 10y ago
    Well, you don't necessarily need that to "succeed in life". Doesn't sound like a good reason for not having a child. It's almost literally throwing the baby out with the water. But that's just my opinion of course.
    - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
      Actually water is cheap where I live, but it brings on a larger concern: if climate change goes unaddressed and global population continues to rise, what world would I be bringing a child into? At this rate, things just don't look good for humanity. At the very least I can assume my future kids would be safe with stable jobs and employable skills, which brings me back to higher ed.
  - civilian 10y ago
    As someone who studied biochemistry in a small engineering school in New England, I royally screwed myself when I decided to live on the west coast, and I doubley screwed myself when I switched from biotech to software. But hey, it's worked out okay, even though I've gotten a 0% boost from my alumni "network". I think you're denying the agency of your future children if things like "college costs" and "climate change" and other macro-level problems are deterring you & your partner from having kids. Let your kids solve those problems! They'll be thinking about the problem differently than an old fogey like you, because they will have grown up in it. And more generally: rm -rf, you're a smart motherfucker, and you obviously think globally, and the coming generation would benefit from having more of your spawn mixed in with them!!
mturmon 10y ago
I don't know your numbers, and the following is thus presumptuous, for which I apologize in advance. But: from what you've written, it seems like you're overthinking it. You're still paying off student loans and you're worrying about a child-bearing decision that you could put off until almost 40 years of age? Somewhere between now and then, one of your assumptions may change.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  My partner is older than I am. Her age is imperative to child-bearing. The older a parent has a child, the more at risk the child is for birth defects and other health problems. Having a child that late - assuming we can afford one by then - while being aware of their potential health implications is simply selfish. If I'm going to have children, I'm doing it for them.
andrewprock 10y ago
Not having kids because you can't pay for their tuition given your current earnings is a quite novel position to take. When college was cheaper, people still had children. Many of those children did not go to college.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Most jobs require college degrees and work experience, even if the person can be trained on the job. My children could be excellent but have neither of those things and if just one person with a degree and some halfway decent dress sense walks in the door, my kids' resumes will be in the trash in an instant.
  - flubert 10y ago
    >Most jobs require college degrees https://www.google.com/#q=number+of+people+with+college+degrees+in+the+us https://www.google.com/#q=number+of+people+with+college+degr...
bradleyjg 10y ago
The only way we envisioned owning property would be to build our own a considerable distance away from our small city's center. That alone proved to be a significant part of our budget, which is already under considerable pressure from student loans and car payments. Why must you own property?
- antisthenes 10y ago
  Because owning property is a form of defense (risk hedging) against the rent-seeking capitalist class.
ensiferum 10y ago
Well, children (and humans) are a number 1 environmental problem anyway. So you're doing the right thing.
osmala 10y ago
College can never become too costly for a single child of two well-educated and well-employed parents with 18+ year career behind them. It's just a fact that in such situation colleges will start decreasing cost and tuition to get students in. Also cost increases are stuff that look good in marketing material to increase desirability of that college over other colleges and that trend will hit a wall. Also there is increasing political movement to get college tuition costs down. What I get from this is: Either USA is totally screwed up country or you two value your personal lifestyle a lot more than having a child. Child isn't really that expensive since even poor can afford it. Its expensive to have child with expensive lifestyle.
- ruste 10y ago
  From what I've seen, a lot of it is people getting used to a standard of living above their means and being totally okay with going into debt to maintain it. People get used to having a lot of things they really don't need and end up spending a considerable amount of money on them. Upgrading phones through their cell phone provider for instance. I know a lot of people that just think "oh yay! I'm due for an upgrade." I think many don't realize that the phone isn't free. They could buy the phone outright and it'd be cheaper. They just pay for the phone through a higher cell phone bill for several months. Things like that add up.

atarian 10y ago

Why not send your future kids to community college and then have them transfer?

AnimalMuppet 10y ago
If I understand this strategy, you send them to community college for the first two years, where they take their general ed requirements. Then they transfer to a "real" (expensive) college for the last two years, for the deeper/more specialized courses. It's not a bad strategy (we may do it with one of our children). But if higher cost is the problem, this solves less than half of it. Half because they still go to an expensive college for two years. Less than half, because the two years at a community college aren't free, either.
- TwiztidK 10y ago
  Community College is cheap, really cheap. I took CC classes during the summer while I was in school, working an internship at the same time, to knock out some of my humanities classes. In total, it cost me around $1500 to take 15 credit hours of classes there (compared to $7k + fees for the same at my college). But, you're right, it does solve a little less than half the cost. Which is awesome! If you wanted to go to a nice restaurant and could buy a Groupon that would let you get $100 of food for $55, that would be a great deal, despite it not being free.
  - thoth 10y ago
    The linked article specifically mentions that the CC safety net is fraying as well - costs for middle class income brackets range 11% to 22% instead of 16% to 45% (across various other options and states; unfortunately all 8 states mentioned are different so no direct comparisons). So yeah, they are cheaper but not all of them necessarily offer the same discount your anecdote provides.
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    By the way, while we're on such topics, don't forget CLEP tests. You learn a topic well enough to pass the test, pay your fee, take a two-hour test, and (if you pass) wind up with college credit that is recognized by many (most?) universities.
rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
Assuming they can get into college after that. If you think competition is fierce in a world of 7 billion people, imagine how it will look with 8 or 9 or 10.
- billmalarky 10y ago
  You're making a lot of negative predictions about a world that is changing pretty drastically. Maybe you're right and we're headed for a dystopian future. While that's certainly a possibility, there are many other positive possibilities your children could experience (psuedo post-scarcity through the singularity, virtual reality, etc). I'd wager the odds are quite good that life will be a more positive experience in the next 150 years than in the period of "dawn of mankind" - 1900.
  - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
    If I have kids and am right about humanity's bleak future, I both sacrificed my well-being to support children, and brought more sufferers into this world.
akhilcacharya 10y ago
I spent my last 2 years of high school getting an AS before going to my state school. I wouldn't recommend it to high achieving students, at all.
- eanzenberg 10y ago
  You wouldn't.. why?
  - akhilcacharya 10y ago
    1) I'm very concerned about the perception of having an AS. This may not be a rational concern, but I've removed it from my resume to reduce risk. 2) Opportunities at CC's are limited compared to even non-flagship state universities (no research, etc), although you can of course still get other opportunities at other local universities. 3) You're effectively tied to your state school. I'm lucky that NC has one well-regarded flagship, but not everybody wants to go to their state school anyway. Higher level coursework won't transfer to private universities. 4) My early college program limited what coursework we could take, so I still need 2.5-4 years to graduate with a CS degree from my state school even with significant credit which negates the cost advantage in my case. 5) The peer group can be hit or miss. With that said, there were __many__ very intelligent and hardworking people in my classes. With all that said, some people can still make the best of it. My school graduated their first Harvard admit this year (but then again, he might have been legacy). We've had 2 Duke admits, 1 Cornell - the rest go to UNC or lower ranked schools like myself. Doing it again I would have probably gone to my state's boarding school instead.
    - aceinaday 10y ago
      Why would you list an AS on your resume? If the idea is to transfer to one of the state schools and finish up there, wouldn't you just list your BS?
      - akhilcacharya 10y ago
        I know some people that listed their AS too. Of course you don't need to.
quaffapint 10y ago
That's the plan for our son who will be going in a couple years. He doesn't know what he wants to do, so why pay much more (not that its super cheap, but cheaper than many other options). I myself transferred schools multiple times - the greatest thing is the credits transfer, but the gpa does not, so if you screw up a few classes in the beginning, you can reset that. In the end people really only look what you list on your resume - not the first x years, but where you graduated from and how well you did at the end.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ruste 10y ago
  My transfer credit was included in my GPA. :( It isn't too bad, but still.

sp332 10y ago

Sorry if I misunderstood, but you're not having kids because you might not afford to send them to college? Edit: I just wanted to point out that the sticker price is usually not what people pay for college. Grants are very common and so are scholarships of various kinds and sizes. But beyond all that, you can opt-in to this repayment plan https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/education/higher-education/ensuring-that-student-loans-are-affordable https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/education/higher-education... which caps the amount per year and also the total amount that borrowers will pay for college, based on their income.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
We aren't going to have kids we can't support. Right now we absolutely cannot, and even in five years time things will still be looking relatively tight. We might be able by then to scrape together a down payment on a mortgage, or have a child, but not both. The biological window gets smaller by the day. Why bother?
- tn13 10y ago
  Makes sense.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- SilasX 10y ago
  Personally, I don't think that's wise. 20 years is a long time and the whole setup is getting more ridiculous by the day. I fully expect that it will collapse under its own weight before your kids have to make the decision. (Nothing necessarily explosive, just something like "alternate routes into white-collar well-paid entry-level work will be well-trod at that point, avoiding the need for expensive college or bidding it down.")
  - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
    I would like to believe you. Really I would. But I have to plan for the future that I expect, not the one I want.

tptacek 10y ago

My impression from my peer group is that most people from my generation that went to college take on significant debt to do it. Isn't this basically the normal path people take to pay their way through college? (I didn't go.) Having kids is obviously a deeply personal decision and don't think I'm second-guessing you, but college funding is probably not a dispositive concern.

vkou 10y ago
Most people are not children of two working, well-educated professionals. If that family can't afford to give their children a future without selling them into debt, the American dream is truly dead.
- tptacek 10y ago
  I mean, I agree that they're not children of the elite, but they go to college anyways. College debt is annoying, but I'd be surprised to hear it's a top 5 concern for any of them. For whatever it's worth, the idea that the "American Dream" requires a college education is itself a little weird.
  - gist 10y ago
    Look everybody quite honestly feels entitled. The fact is not everyone can go to the best schools or they wouldn't be the best schools. (Because they are the best because they are selective, not just because they give a good education). And even if everyone got the same good education there will still be a pecking order of people that get selected as the best and the brightest. No way around that. But people don't want to hear that they want to hear that everyone can go to Harvard and get a high paying job and that we are all equal. But that's not the way the world works (or even the way the sports or entertainment business works).
  - sedachv 10y ago
    > College debt is annoying, but I'd be surprised to hear it's a top 5 concern for any of them. Yes, all those people having to live incognito to avoid collection agencies or even fleeing abroad (http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/23/pf/college/student_loan_fugitives/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/23/pf/college/student_loan_fugi...) certainly do not figure it as a concern.

talmand 10y ago

And that's how we get Idiocracy.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
Precisely. At this rate, I don't see much advantage in bringing a few snowflakes into this world to combat the tidal waves of ignorance. And that's assuming I can give them a childhood that was even a fraction of mine.
- Sacho 10y ago
  Perhaps you havent considered all the possible options. What about wiping your debt, saving money and moving to a developing country to start your family?
  - antisthenes 10y ago
    I am not rm_-rf, but I certainly would not hedge my future children's future on the stability of a developing country. That's barring the other multitude of issues associated with moving (child isolation, increased competition, lack of certain infrastructure, new languages, loss of social support network, etc.)

CyberDildonics 10y ago

You aren't having kids because they would go into debt if they decide to go to college? You are aware that the bulk of human knowledge is available for free on the internet right?

vkou 10y ago
You are aware that for most professions, having a college on your CV is minimum table stakes, right? Not everyone works in CS.
rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
As I said elsewhere, there is no network in learning to code by yourself, or what have you. Assuming my children could learn everything they need from the Internet to give them stable, well paying jobs while competing against twice the number of global applicants as I did is truly wishful thinking.
- CyberDildonics 10y ago
  This 'college is about networking' argument is one of the weakest rationalizations out there, as if it isn't possible to walk up to someone and show them directly that you can program using something you wrote and an ipad. Anyone can also make a webpage and show off a demo by sending someone a link. Do you know who students meet at college? Other students trying to get jobs and professors who overwhelmingly don't even have ties to professionals in their industry. Every interview but one I've gotten by going through a process that anyone could go through and it has been my work that has stood out.

billmalarky 10y ago

"assuming costs rise at the same rate as the last 30 years" I just can't believe that will happen. The millennial generation has been burned HARD by higher education. I'm guessing the demand for expensive programs loaded with amenities that provide little value will plummet by the time their kids come of age. I expect huge growth in low-frills low-cost technical programs. Also, the insane cost of higher education is mainly propped up by easy access to loans that are practically impossible to discharge via bankruptcy. If this ever changes (and there will be a lot of political will to when millennials are the main voter base) expect the price to practically collapse overnight.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
Theres no network, no alumni connection, no shared sense of pride for an alma mater in a low cost no frills technical program. Like they say, it's not what you know, it's who you know.
- spdionis 10y ago
  Well, you don't necessarily need that to "succeed in life". Doesn't sound like a good reason for not having a child. It's almost literally throwing the baby out with the water. But that's just my opinion of course.
  - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
    Actually water is cheap where I live, but it brings on a larger concern: if climate change goes unaddressed and global population continues to rise, what world would I be bringing a child into? At this rate, things just don't look good for humanity. At the very least I can assume my future kids would be safe with stable jobs and employable skills, which brings me back to higher ed.
- civilian 10y ago
  As someone who studied biochemistry in a small engineering school in New England, I royally screwed myself when I decided to live on the west coast, and I doubley screwed myself when I switched from biotech to software. But hey, it's worked out okay, even though I've gotten a 0% boost from my alumni "network". I think you're denying the agency of your future children if things like "college costs" and "climate change" and other macro-level problems are deterring you & your partner from having kids. Let your kids solve those problems! They'll be thinking about the problem differently than an old fogey like you, because they will have grown up in it. And more generally: rm -rf, you're a smart motherfucker, and you obviously think globally, and the coming generation would benefit from having more of your spawn mixed in with them!!

mturmon 10y ago

I don't know your numbers, and the following is thus presumptuous, for which I apologize in advance. But: from what you've written, it seems like you're overthinking it. You're still paying off student loans and you're worrying about a child-bearing decision that you could put off until almost 40 years of age? Somewhere between now and then, one of your assumptions may change.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
My partner is older than I am. Her age is imperative to child-bearing. The older a parent has a child, the more at risk the child is for birth defects and other health problems. Having a child that late - assuming we can afford one by then - while being aware of their potential health implications is simply selfish. If I'm going to have children, I'm doing it for them.

andrewprock 10y ago

Not having kids because you can't pay for their tuition given your current earnings is a quite novel position to take. When college was cheaper, people still had children. Many of those children did not go to college.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
Most jobs require college degrees and work experience, even if the person can be trained on the job. My children could be excellent but have neither of those things and if just one person with a degree and some halfway decent dress sense walks in the door, my kids' resumes will be in the trash in an instant.
- flubert 10y ago
  >Most jobs require college degrees https://www.google.com/#q=number+of+people+with+college+degrees+in+the+us https://www.google.com/#q=number+of+people+with+college+degr...

bradleyjg 10y ago

The only way we envisioned owning property would be to build our own a considerable distance away from our small city's center. That alone proved to be a significant part of our budget, which is already under considerable pressure from student loans and car payments. Why must you own property?

antisthenes 10y ago
Because owning property is a form of defense (risk hedging) against the rent-seeking capitalist class.

ensiferum 10y ago

Well, children (and humans) are a number 1 environmental problem anyway. So you're doing the right thing.

osmala 10y ago

College can never become too costly for a single child of two well-educated and well-employed parents with 18+ year career behind them. It's just a fact that in such situation colleges will start decreasing cost and tuition to get students in. Also cost increases are stuff that look good in marketing material to increase desirability of that college over other colleges and that trend will hit a wall. Also there is increasing political movement to get college tuition costs down. What I get from this is: Either USA is totally screwed up country or you two value your personal lifestyle a lot more than having a child. Child isn't really that expensive since even poor can afford it. Its expensive to have child with expensive lifestyle.

ruste 10y ago
From what I've seen, a lot of it is people getting used to a standard of living above their means and being totally okay with going into debt to maintain it. People get used to having a lot of things they really don't need and end up spending a considerable amount of money on them. Upgrading phones through their cell phone provider for instance. I know a lot of people that just think "oh yay! I'm due for an upgrade." I think many don't realize that the phone isn't free. They could buy the phone outright and it'd be cheaper. They just pay for the phone through a higher cell phone bill for several months. Things like that add up.