4 ms·

Sure, but can we also stop counting suicides in the "gun violence" numbers.

swagv 10y ago
Suicide is just another form of self-defense
Cshelton 10y ago
And gang violence. I think it's safe to say, gun crimes among gangs would just be replaced with something else if guns were taken out of the picture. (Which...removing guns is not possible nor realistic, so let's be realistic about the solutions..)
- Kurimo 10y ago
  Yeah, right. Because there's nothing more destructive about a semi-automatic pistol than a knife. Hmm...
  - Cshelton 10y ago
    Physical items are not destructive, people are. That's where you have it all wrong. Gang members will kill other gang members by any means, they don't need guns. Guns, knives, bombs, they don't kill people, people kill people.
    - Kurimo 10y ago
      That is a nonsense argument. By that logic we should let arms dealers sell individuals tanks, missiles, nuclear weapons. Why not? The objects themselves aren't destructive afterall! The reason is because their POTENTIAL is FAR more destructive and you cannot leave their use up to the whims of an individual with no oversight. That is why we don't! We draw the line somewhere already. So to pretend we don't and that it's all fair game and it's all peoples' fault so it doesn't matter anyway... that's just naive.
      - douche 10y ago
        Btw, it is totally legal to buy a tank http://www.guns.com/2015/08/25/want-to-buy-a-tank/ http://www.guns.com/2015/08/25/want-to-buy-a-tank/
        Kurimo 10y ago
        "so long as the gun on the tank has been permanently rendered inoperable." Yeah, not really what I meant. But kinda cool!
dangerlibrary 10y ago
Sure, but at a state level lax gun laws are correlated with an overall increase in suicide, so it's not a free pass. > Each law was associated with significantly lower firearm suicide rates and the proportion of suicides resulting from firearms. In addition, each law, except for that which required a waiting period, was associated with a lower overall suicide rate. Follow-up analyses showed a significant indirect effect on overall suicide rates through the proportion of suicides by firearms, indicating that the reduced overall suicide rate was attributable to fewer suicide attempts, fewer handguns in the home, suicide attempts using less lethal means, or a combination of these factors. States that implemented any of these laws saw a decreased suicide rate in subsequent years, whereas the only state that repealed 1 of these laws saw an increased suicide rate. http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302753 http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2015.3...

swagv 10y ago

Suicide is just another form of self-defense

And gang violence. I think it's safe to say, gun crimes among gangs would just be replaced with something else if guns were taken out of the picture. (Which...removing guns is not possible nor realistic, so let's be realistic about the solutions..)

Kurimo 10y ago
Yeah, right. Because there's nothing more destructive about a semi-automatic pistol than a knife. Hmm...
- Cshelton 10y ago
  Physical items are not destructive, people are. That's where you have it all wrong. Gang members will kill other gang members by any means, they don't need guns. Guns, knives, bombs, they don't kill people, people kill people.
  - Kurimo 10y ago
    That is a nonsense argument. By that logic we should let arms dealers sell individuals tanks, missiles, nuclear weapons. Why not? The objects themselves aren't destructive afterall! The reason is because their POTENTIAL is FAR more destructive and you cannot leave their use up to the whims of an individual with no oversight. That is why we don't! We draw the line somewhere already. So to pretend we don't and that it's all fair game and it's all peoples' fault so it doesn't matter anyway... that's just naive.
    - douche 10y ago
      Btw, it is totally legal to buy a tank http://www.guns.com/2015/08/25/want-to-buy-a-tank/ http://www.guns.com/2015/08/25/want-to-buy-a-tank/
      - Kurimo 10y ago
        "so long as the gun on the tank has been permanently rendered inoperable." Yeah, not really what I meant. But kinda cool!

dangerlibrary 10y ago

Sure, but at a state level lax gun laws are correlated with an overall increase in suicide, so it's not a free pass. > Each law was associated with significantly lower firearm suicide rates and the proportion of suicides resulting from firearms. In addition, each law, except for that which required a waiting period, was associated with a lower overall suicide rate. Follow-up analyses showed a significant indirect effect on overall suicide rates through the proportion of suicides by firearms, indicating that the reduced overall suicide rate was attributable to fewer suicide attempts, fewer handguns in the home, suicide attempts using less lethal means, or a combination of these factors. States that implemented any of these laws saw a decreased suicide rate in subsequent years, whereas the only state that repealed 1 of these laws saw an increased suicide rate. http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302753 http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2015.3...