4 ms·

You mean what would all the government workers do when they get too old to work? I don't know but I don't get a pension so why should I pay for theirs?

by eweise 10y ago

iofj 10y ago
Given that interest rates are 0.25% and inflation (non-core, the one you'll be paying) is >3% ... what is your alternative ? A pension is the only chance you have of a decent life when you get old. There is nothing else.
- sbardle 10y ago
  I'm hoping Basic Income will be up and running by the time I hit my late 60s.
  - iofj 10y ago
    But the "basic income" proposals are completely unrealistic. The real proposals, generally referred to as "helicopter money" are about just forgiving central-bank owned government debt, then using the free cash to embark on large infrastructure projects. You won't see any of that cash unless you're involved in the building industry.
chrisseaton 10y ago
I don't understand (and I'm being down voted so I must be saying something stupid) but why do you care if government workers get a salary and a pension bought for them, or a bit more salary and buy their own pension? And don't most most jobs still include a pension as a standard benefit? I'd say you were in the minority if you're a full time tech worker and have no pension at all.
- toast0 10y ago
  The problem with government pensions is that the work of today is paid for with money today and a promise of money in the future for an undeterminable number of years. Many governments have not saved prudently for their future obligations and the result is current taxes going to support past workers, which taxpayers don't appreciate when it gets extreme. In the private sector, pensions have been going away -- I've worked for about nine employers in the last 20 years or so, only one had a pension plan, a public school district. (I wasn't eligible to participate because I held a part time position) Many (most?) private sector employers offer participation in defined contribution retirement plans such as 401(k), some with employer contributions -- those are much simpler to manage, today's work gets paid for today. There are some government plans of this type, and taxpayers don't get upset about them, generally.
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    Ok, so my ignorance was that when the parents said 'pension' they didn't say that they really meant 'defined benefit pensions'. A 401k and other defined contribution pensions are still a pension.
    - khuey 10y ago
      In colloquial American English "pension" nearly always means defined benefits.
rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
Government jobs are dull, underpaid, largely unrewarding, and people in them have to take shit from Ayn Rand acolytes like you every day for problems that are way above their pay grade. Assuring that the people who serve society don't spend their final years in poverty is the least we can do.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  There's social security, retirement funds, and savings. Why does 'government job' mean anything special?
  - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
    Government jobs are often very low pay. Many government workers who are promised a pension are locked out of social security. If you are being paid so low that you cannot save for regular expenses, let alone retirement, then what are you going to do when you turn 65? Turn over and die immediately? Also, the reason you assure pension to government employees is because they tend to be stable and dependable workers over the long term. I bet you would lose your shit if government employees in your town had the turnover of a McDonald's. Higher turnover costs mean higher taxes and much worse/less dependable service.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      Sounds like a thousand other jobs. Any company would benefit from stable and dependable workers. Nobody else gets this special treatment. I'm unconvinced. I believe they get special treatment only because they are a large lobby group.
    - jazzyk 10y ago
      This is like the "Java is slow" myth that will never go away :-) In 2014 federal civilian workers had an average wage of $84,153, according the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis [1].5 By comparison, the average wage for the nation's 111 million private-sector workers was $56,350. In Las Vegas, the average salary and benefits package for firefighter union employees was $199,678 (in 2009, I think) [2]. The average salary alone was $128,026. Please also note that federal government pensions are in a league of its own - 80% of your last year salary - and there are stories in newspapers every year about, for example, street cops working overtime and making $120K+ in their last year. [1] http://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=9&step=1#reqid=9&step=3&isuri=1&903=201 http://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=9&step=1#reqid=9&... [2] http://lasvegassun.com/news/2009/dec/30/cost-cutting-ideas-center-salaries/ http://lasvegassun.com/news/2009/dec/30/cost-cutting-ideas-c...

You mean what would all the government workers do when they get too old to work? I don't know but I don't get a pension so why should I pay for theirs?

by eweise 10y ago

You mean what would all the government workers do when they get too old to work? I don't know but I don't get a pension so why should I pay for theirs?

iofj 10y ago

Given that interest rates are 0.25% and inflation (non-core, the one you'll be paying) is >3% ... what is your alternative ? A pension is the only chance you have of a decent life when you get old. There is nothing else.

sbardle 10y ago
I'm hoping Basic Income will be up and running by the time I hit my late 60s.
- iofj 10y ago
  But the "basic income" proposals are completely unrealistic. The real proposals, generally referred to as "helicopter money" are about just forgiving central-bank owned government debt, then using the free cash to embark on large infrastructure projects. You won't see any of that cash unless you're involved in the building industry.

chrisseaton 10y ago

I don't understand (and I'm being down voted so I must be saying something stupid) but why do you care if government workers get a salary and a pension bought for them, or a bit more salary and buy their own pension? And don't most most jobs still include a pension as a standard benefit? I'd say you were in the minority if you're a full time tech worker and have no pension at all.

toast0 10y ago
The problem with government pensions is that the work of today is paid for with money today and a promise of money in the future for an undeterminable number of years. Many governments have not saved prudently for their future obligations and the result is current taxes going to support past workers, which taxpayers don't appreciate when it gets extreme. In the private sector, pensions have been going away -- I've worked for about nine employers in the last 20 years or so, only one had a pension plan, a public school district. (I wasn't eligible to participate because I held a part time position) Many (most?) private sector employers offer participation in defined contribution retirement plans such as 401(k), some with employer contributions -- those are much simpler to manage, today's work gets paid for today. There are some government plans of this type, and taxpayers don't get upset about them, generally.
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  Ok, so my ignorance was that when the parents said 'pension' they didn't say that they really meant 'defined benefit pensions'. A 401k and other defined contribution pensions are still a pension.
  - khuey 10y ago
    In colloquial American English "pension" nearly always means defined benefits.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago

Government jobs are dull, underpaid, largely unrewarding, and people in them have to take shit from Ayn Rand acolytes like you every day for problems that are way above their pay grade. Assuring that the people who serve society don't spend their final years in poverty is the least we can do.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
There's social security, retirement funds, and savings. Why does 'government job' mean anything special?
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Government jobs are often very low pay. Many government workers who are promised a pension are locked out of social security. If you are being paid so low that you cannot save for regular expenses, let alone retirement, then what are you going to do when you turn 65? Turn over and die immediately? Also, the reason you assure pension to government employees is because they tend to be stable and dependable workers over the long term. I bet you would lose your shit if government employees in your town had the turnover of a McDonald's. Higher turnover costs mean higher taxes and much worse/less dependable service.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    Sounds like a thousand other jobs. Any company would benefit from stable and dependable workers. Nobody else gets this special treatment. I'm unconvinced. I believe they get special treatment only because they are a large lobby group.
  - jazzyk 10y ago
    This is like the "Java is slow" myth that will never go away :-) In 2014 federal civilian workers had an average wage of $84,153, according the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis [1].5 By comparison, the average wage for the nation's 111 million private-sector workers was $56,350. In Las Vegas, the average salary and benefits package for firefighter union employees was $199,678 (in 2009, I think) [2]. The average salary alone was $128,026. Please also note that federal government pensions are in a league of its own - 80% of your last year salary - and there are stories in newspapers every year about, for example, street cops working overtime and making $120K+ in their last year. [1] http://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=9&step=1#reqid=9&step=3&isuri=1&903=201 http://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=9&step=1#reqid=9&... [2] http://lasvegassun.com/news/2009/dec/30/cost-cutting-ideas-center-salaries/ http://lasvegassun.com/news/2009/dec/30/cost-cutting-ideas-c...