7 ms·

Airbnb cant fix society, but they can easily enforce non-discrimination on their hosts.

by return0 10y ago

dublinben 10y ago
>they can easily enforce non-discrimination on their hosts From reading this article, it sounds like they actually can't. Ultimately, they have to be willing to banish hosts who discriminate, which diminishes their platform.
MichaelGG 10y ago
They could try, if they want to sink their business. Telling people they no longer control who stays in their home does not seem like a smart move -- at least for actual home-sharers, not illegal hotel operators. And AirBnB doesn't want to really recognize the hotel operators, do they?
- return0 10y ago
  I doubt they would sink their business. Airbnb is no longer a startup that is given free licence to go against established laws. Compliance at this stage will benefit their business.
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    AirBnB isn't discriminating. Private home owners are choosing to share their homes. For anti discrimination laws to apply, AirBnB would have to admit that many of their "sharing" people are just illicit hotels skirting the law.
herbst 10y ago
But how and why? Will you seriously take people away the choice who they want to host? How will you enforce this? Someone who declines blacks 5 times gets banned?
- return0 10y ago
  Then why have any anti-discrimination laws at all? Very easy to enforce: if airbnb investigates and finds you discriminate, you are out of the platform.
  - herbst 10y ago
    Against discrimination i assume. But not against people who dont want to share their privates with others because of prejudices. Honestly i cant see this as discrimination, thats real issues our society faces, but its more stupidity and fear based on shitty media than anything else, especially discrimination.
    - return0 10y ago
      They are selling their homes, not sharing them. I don't really understand how this is different from that gay wedding cake case AT ALL.
      - herbst 10y ago
        I dont think we have the same understanding of the word "selling". And even if i am wrong, there is still a huge difference between private selling and commercial selling.
        return0 10y ago
        Apparently the american law doesn't require nondiscrimination at what is listed in most airbnb listings as pointed out elsewhere [not the case elsewhere]. Ergo, airbnb cannot stop hosts from discriminating in most US listings. Therefore, they should have never claim that they are against discrimination. Otherwise, they would have to prove it with actions.
        chris11 10y ago
        I do see some difference. I might agree that there should be a difference between a person who owns a property primarily for their own use and rents on Airbnb and someone who owns a property primarily for renting on Airbnb. One is more commercial, and one is more personal. But Airbnb hosts seem to be taking advantage of legal grey areas. Airbnb is directly competing with the hotel industry, but they are claiming those industry regulations don't apply to them. I'm not saying that they are necessarily doing anything illegal or definitely acting unethically. But I do think that they are operating in some legal grey areas, so it's not overreaching to try to increase or change how regulations apply to them.
duiker101 10y ago
I agree with you as a normal person, but let's put it in the perspective of the company. That is a move that might hurt them without bringing any (monetary) benefit, strict rules like that might mean that instead the user might try other services or avoid renting out completely. While I do not condone the discrimination I can understand that some people might still want to be able to chose who gets in their house and putting rules around that might scare away a lot of people. I do not think this is a problem of AirBnB and I do not think that they will implement rules, what they might do is try to teach more the benefits of cultural diversity.
- caseysoftware 10y ago
  I think the bigger problem is enforcement. If someone says "I'm not accepting your request because you're X" that's easy to detect and punish. But if it's more subtle and no explicit reason, it's going to be way harder to detect and adds a lot of judgement calls to the mix.. which puts it up the whims of whoever is doing support at that moment. I wrote on this last year on how it could be totally transparent and devastating as a result: http://caseysoftware.com/blog/social-apis-for-social-evil http://caseysoftware.com/blog/social-apis-for-social-evil
timv 10y ago
Does that extend to requiring that single females be willing to rent out their sofa to males? And if you expect that of AirBnB do you expect the same for private apartment sharing arrangements? Single [ethnicity undisclosed] [gender undisclosed] seeks whoever the law says I have to live with?

Airbnb cant fix society, but they can easily enforce non-discrimination on their hosts.

by return0 10y ago

Airbnb cant fix society, but they can easily enforce non-discrimination on their hosts.

>they can easily enforce non-discrimination on their hosts From reading this article, it sounds like they actually can't. Ultimately, they have to be willing to banish hosts who discriminate, which diminishes their platform.

MichaelGG 10y ago

They could try, if they want to sink their business. Telling people they no longer control who stays in their home does not seem like a smart move -- at least for actual home-sharers, not illegal hotel operators. And AirBnB doesn't want to really recognize the hotel operators, do they?

return0 10y ago
I doubt they would sink their business. Airbnb is no longer a startup that is given free licence to go against established laws. Compliance at this stage will benefit their business.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  AirBnB isn't discriminating. Private home owners are choosing to share their homes. For anti discrimination laws to apply, AirBnB would have to admit that many of their "sharing" people are just illicit hotels skirting the law.

herbst 10y ago

But how and why? Will you seriously take people away the choice who they want to host? How will you enforce this? Someone who declines blacks 5 times gets banned?

return0 10y ago
Then why have any anti-discrimination laws at all? Very easy to enforce: if airbnb investigates and finds you discriminate, you are out of the platform.
- herbst 10y ago
  Against discrimination i assume. But not against people who dont want to share their privates with others because of prejudices. Honestly i cant see this as discrimination, thats real issues our society faces, but its more stupidity and fear based on shitty media than anything else, especially discrimination.
  - return0 10y ago
    They are selling their homes, not sharing them. I don't really understand how this is different from that gay wedding cake case AT ALL.
    - herbst 10y ago
      I dont think we have the same understanding of the word "selling". And even if i am wrong, there is still a huge difference between private selling and commercial selling.
      - return0 10y ago
        Apparently the american law doesn't require nondiscrimination at what is listed in most airbnb listings as pointed out elsewhere [not the case elsewhere]. Ergo, airbnb cannot stop hosts from discriminating in most US listings. Therefore, they should have never claim that they are against discrimination. Otherwise, they would have to prove it with actions.
      - chris11 10y ago
        I do see some difference. I might agree that there should be a difference between a person who owns a property primarily for their own use and rents on Airbnb and someone who owns a property primarily for renting on Airbnb. One is more commercial, and one is more personal. But Airbnb hosts seem to be taking advantage of legal grey areas. Airbnb is directly competing with the hotel industry, but they are claiming those industry regulations don't apply to them. I'm not saying that they are necessarily doing anything illegal or definitely acting unethically. But I do think that they are operating in some legal grey areas, so it's not overreaching to try to increase or change how regulations apply to them.

duiker101 10y ago

I agree with you as a normal person, but let's put it in the perspective of the company. That is a move that might hurt them without bringing any (monetary) benefit, strict rules like that might mean that instead the user might try other services or avoid renting out completely. While I do not condone the discrimination I can understand that some people might still want to be able to chose who gets in their house and putting rules around that might scare away a lot of people. I do not think this is a problem of AirBnB and I do not think that they will implement rules, what they might do is try to teach more the benefits of cultural diversity.

caseysoftware 10y ago
I think the bigger problem is enforcement. If someone says "I'm not accepting your request because you're X" that's easy to detect and punish. But if it's more subtle and no explicit reason, it's going to be way harder to detect and adds a lot of judgement calls to the mix.. which puts it up the whims of whoever is doing support at that moment. I wrote on this last year on how it could be totally transparent and devastating as a result: http://caseysoftware.com/blog/social-apis-for-social-evil http://caseysoftware.com/blog/social-apis-for-social-evil

timv 10y ago

Does that extend to requiring that single females be willing to rent out their sofa to males? And if you expect that of AirBnB do you expect the same for private apartment sharing arrangements? Single [ethnicity undisclosed] [gender undisclosed] seeks whoever the law says I have to live with?