11 ms·

Racist hosts, not hotels, are the greatest threat to Airbnb's business

43 points by Kinnard 10y ago

undersuit 10y ago
As long as these are personal residences serving short term boarding needs I have no problem with people being openly racist. To help AirBnB should put a very large black and white banner on listings where the owners have racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. visitor restrictions. I know I can't bring my dog to certain places, I should know whether I can't invite my black friend.
- yardie 10y ago
  People hate being labeled racist more than actually being racist. Good example: Trumps feelings on undocumented immigrants being rapists and murderers.
  - khattam 10y ago
    >Good example: Trumps feelings on undocumented immigrants being rapists and murderers. Terrible example for whatever point you wanted to make. Here is the original quote: >When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. So, what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to perform to conclude that he meant "undocumented immigrants are rapists and murderers"?
    - yardie 10y ago
      "they're rapists... And some are good people" Can I use this same logic for your typical Stanford, white male student? I'm pretty sure if I did I'd be considered the racist.
      - khattam 10y ago
        Yes, if 80% of Stanford females are victims of sexual abuse (like 80% of female illegal immigrants crossing the border are).
        yardie 10y ago
        Raped by whom? Smugglers. And where are these rapist smugglers? In Mexico. So who is the Donald referring to doing all the raping? Mexican based smugglers or US based undocumented migrants?
Kinnard 10y ago
Particularly wondering what this community thinks as AirBnB is a YC company and some of the proposed solutions to this problem are startups: http://www.innclusive.com/ http://www.innclusive.com/ http://noirbnb.launchrock.com/ http://noirbnb.launchrock.com/
- antihero 10y ago
  This was actually my immediate reaction - so AirBNB because of it's size is going to attract some racist hosts because their demographic is "anyone with a room". If you create a site where the intended demographic is "anyone with a room that is pro-inclusivity", then surely you could create a community around people who self-select as not perpetuating racism/transphobia/general bigotry.
  - prodigal_erik 10y ago
    Those people have embraced the idea of repressive tolerance and would proudly turn away religious pro-gun Trump supporters.
herbst 10y ago
I dont see how this is related to AirBnB. They may are a good case to study this phenomen but in reality it is the society that creates this fears. Ironically it isnt to far off ether. Where i live the majority of black youth have a bigger criminal history than their white peers. Sure this again fully depends on how the society treats them.
- Kinnard 10y ago
  Yes, AirBnB exists in a country with an entrenched legacy of discrimination. What they do about that on their platform is what matters here.
  - herbst 10y ago
    Thats my point, what should they do? They created a community run platform, everything they would do now would just make the users angry. Also seriously, what should they do? They cant forbid people to decline users, nobody would use such a platform.
    - gohrt 10y ago
      > They cant forbid people to decline users, nobody would use such a platform. That's absurd. The USA is full of business running on platforms that are forbidden to discriminate against protected classes.
  - drivingmenuts 10y ago
    What can they do about it, though? AirBnB doesn't own the property being rented. If it did, an anti-discrimination policy would be easier to enforce. AirBnB is essentially a jazzed-up listing service, not an actual hotelier, that is gouging out a buck while revealing the worst of our society.
- return0 10y ago
  Airbnb cant fix society, but they can easily enforce non-discrimination on their hosts.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
SJW outrage articles like these hopefully will die out as gawker-style journalism does. I don't see how this adds anything to any conversation other than the demographic that travels in the US is primarily white as the US itself is 77% white. I think there will always be perceived racism or other "isms." Playing up edge cases for ad imperssions seems questionable to me. There are 2 million listings on Airbnb, its clear edge cases will always be there. Also, it would be trivial to use this brand of multiculturalism to justify open racism. Why should a Chinese person in Chinatown who doesn't speak English allow a white family to stay in their property? Or allowing a Russian to deny a Ukranian? Or allowing a black family who have been victimized by the police to allow a family containing police officers. I imagine most SJW's would agree for "special exemptions" for these cases. The idea that no one should be turned down is asinine. These are people's homes and by the 4th Amendment the government can't shove people in them. Want to stay somewhere where they don't have these issues? Then call a hotel.
- Kinnard 10y ago
  Did you read through the article? It seems they're reporting on something airbnb users, the company, and academic researchers have recognized as a problem and what's being done about it, including a few startups. Not to mention the whole socially pertinent(Trump???) legacy of entrenched discrimination in the U.S.
  - 101983801 10y ago
    Liberal tree-hugging anti-racist hippie here: I'm not sure if the original story is racism. If I (white) am staying in a Chinese apartment house that otherwise only has Chinese tenants then the likelihood that someone recognizes me as a non-tenant is 100%. Therefore, the likelihood that someone reports me as a stranger is far greater than if I were Chinese. In other words, I'd not be surprised if someone reported me (white) while staying in a (hypothetical) Chinese AirBnB. As far as "recognizing the problem" goes: You pretty much have to acknowledge a "problem" if something like this comes up or you'll be harassed on the Internet.
- return0 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mrits 10y ago
Can we keep these social justice warrior posts off hacker news?
- Kinnard 10y ago
  You don't think this is pertinent? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11960708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11960708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11645433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11645433
  - mrits 10y ago
    I'd rather see the internet as an extension of human life rather than a chance to have public and private groups regulate it.
- jdavis703 10y ago
  But posts about Airbnb being banned or being able to have bans rescinded are fair game? Coverage of tech companies shouldn't be restricted to only a certain narrative.
guard-of-terra 10y ago
What's wrong with being "really, really" white? Why it's a "dirty secret"? That's a bit intolerant to my liking. (Not coming from USA if that matters)
- return0 10y ago
  The article makes a good case for a problem that clearly demands fixing. It's true however that the author chose a clickbaity style and title , instead of adding a paragraph about the obvious thing that can fix it (it doesn't sound that hard, obviously).
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  It's a clickbait and racist title; the article itself has nothing to do with white people, just two incidents. Which is what they are, incidents.
seibelj 10y ago
I was arguing with a friend that convicted felons shouldn't be discriminated against in job searches, or they will never become upstanding members of society. Then later I was thinking about how someday I'm going to rent out my apartment. And if I do a background check on a tenant, and it turns out they are a convicted felon, I honestly couldn't let them rent the apartment because it's too risky. I feel bad about it, but when it comes to risking my own assets, I can't do it!
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  This is why the government steps in and creates fairness laws (though not for felons). It's entirely plausible that an AirBnB renter unfamiliar with evaluating evidence might just look up US crime stats and come to an unfair conclusion on risk. AirBnB is sort of stuck though, since they want to maintain this "sharing economy" fiction, where it's just friendly homeowners sharing their places. They don't want to admit they are encouraging unlicensed hotels that don't follow the law.
- Cshelton 10y ago
  Welcome to the concept of Enlightened self interest. It's pretty much the same as, when poor: "The rich don't pay their fair share", and now if you become rich: "I pay a stupid amount in taxes". Many fiscally liberal/progressive ideas are centered around hypocrisy. Everyone likes to talk the talk, but they don't act upon it. Others call this human nature...
james_pm 10y ago
It's not really a secret that some AirBnB hosts discriminate on the basis of race, sexual orientation and other factors when deciding on which guests they allow to live in their homes. It's also no surprise that neighbours of those hosts also sometimes discriminate against guests who stay in their neighbourhood. AirBnB can definitely work towards educating hosts and guests to try to reduce the chances of this happening, but I'm not sure that it's their job to try and fix what is really a societal problem that is reflected in how people use their service.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  The US collects racial information in crime statistics, right? So it should be one evaluation of Bayes' Theorem to demonstrate actual increased risk based on race, if any. Seems like it should be pretty trivial in some areas to demonstrate exactly what the probabilities are (and if they are even relevant if background rate of crime is low).
ercmilla 10y ago
So a guy all of a sudden sees strangers in his neighbors house. Nevermind their color - wouldn't you be suspicious if you all of a sudden saw 2 20-something dudes in your neighbors house? I know I would - I wouldn't even think twice about their color. This is the example the article is holding up as the example of racism and it isn't even racist. The trans example: I'm 100% for property owners deciding what they will and won't use their private property for. Get over it. You can't go through life getting offended at every opinion different from yours, even if you think it's irrational.
- bluetidepro 10y ago
  100% agree with all of this. While I'm not saying I would personally deny a trans person staying at my Airbnb, at the end of the day, it's the owner's decision. This isn't a public service where people of different race/color/religion/background/etc. are getting denied. It's all private property. It's 100% up to the owner what he/she/they want to use their property for, regardless of how ignorant/racist/stupid/etc. that choice may be.
  - panzagl 10y ago
    A hotel is private property too, doesn't mean they can discriminate based on race in the US.
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      Hotels have regulations that private homes don't. Though many of AirBnB's "hosts" would probably qualify under more regulations than they actually follow.
      - panzagl 10y ago
        I guess I'm assuming the primary use of airbnb is 'rent my house', not 'stay in my guest room'. By offering both at the same place they really do seem to be muddying the waters.
notmarkus 10y ago
It's tempting as a host to reject people of a certain type, but the line that I draw isn't on race, gender or religion — it's age. I've come to find out that older folks — somewhere around 50+ — have been the worst possible guests, with no exceptions so far. They tend to be stingy with their star ratings and leave poor reviews even if they had a perfect experience. They also tend to be much more high-maintenance and not self-sufficient, acting as if they think the Airbnb is a hotel and the host is their concierge or room service. The cost-benefit ratio doesn't work for me in these cases, so I've been intentionally passing on older people recently and trying to fill my Airbnb with younger folks. I never see age mentioned as a factor for discrimination in articles like these, and it seems that it may not be legislated in the same way that the other factors are. But it feels like it's the exact same issue, and I'm willingly becoming more and more guilty of it.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  Does AirBnB make it easy to view what ratings people have given? Certainly the history of an individual user provides much more useful, actionable information than any broad trait. It should be easy for hosts to say they only want people with X reviews where most of them are 4-5 stars. Or a better score that weights it based on the host rating (i.e. if a user's hosts generally get 5 stars, but this user rates them all 3 stars, then it's probably a problem with the user, so avoid.) Perhaps AirBnB doesn't want do to this to avoid putting pressure on renters.
  - notmarkus 10y ago
    That would be a hugely useful metric for a host, but it actually is difficult to see how a user has rated their past hosts. The only method I know of is: view the user profile and look at their reviews, go to each host who reviewed them, search through their reviews to find the prospective guest. There are two points of failure here: if the guest didn't get reviewed by a host or if they didn't review a host. So when a guest only has 1-3 reviews, which seems to be about the average for older folks, it's hard to paint a picture. I did reject a guest through this method, though. Their reviews from hosts were actually all very good, but when I read their reviews of their hosts, they contained things like "he was nice enough to give me a ride to the airport when I asked, though the car was a bit cramped."
Kinnard 10y ago
It appears this story has been flagged. It's dropped off the homepage rather suddenly. I can't find it ten pages deep. Blackernews anyone . . . HN wanna ring in?
- jrs235 10y ago
  Your second line, "Blackernews anyone...", is unnecessary.
  - Kinnard 10y ago
    I think it's rather salient: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11960708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11960708
- dang 10y ago
  Users flagged the story. Since to judge by the comments in this thread they were partly reacting to the linkbait title, we've replaced the title with that of the URL* and turned off the flags. * That's something we often do: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11939165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11939165
Cshelton 10y ago
It's a private host offering to rent out to private guest. They can accept or deny anyone they please to for ANY REASON they feel. That can be race, gender, religion, anything...it doesn't matter. Go find a new hosts then or don't use Airbnb. This problem is NOT Airbnb's to solve. In fact, I don't see this as a problem at all. If I don't want somebody staying at my place, I'm going to reject you, period. That's it...you can't sue me, nor Airbnb, stop crying discrimination, move on.
- negamax 10y ago
  That's really weird perspective. Because the moment you are making a listing in the marketplace (Airbnb in this case). You are selling a good or service. And denying that good or service based on someone's race is definitely unlawful as it should be.
IanDrake 10y ago
There is latent racism on Airbnb, but I think they're looking at it the wrong way. We have two properties on Airbnb and instead of my white and shaved ugly head, my wife is on profile picture (she's asian). We get far more requests from minorities than is normal. Basically, we've cornered the market on asian people visiting Cape Cod. It's not our doing, but there is clearly a selection bias by renters, which I think is human nature.
- makomk 10y ago
  Your experience would easily be explained by other AirBNB hosts not renting to non-whites.
deleted 10y ago
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friendzis 10y ago
Would it change anything if this was about couchsurfing (free service) rather than airbnb? If it was about white co-renters voting against new black tenants? What if I was traveling a lot and would let my friends use my car and/or stay at my house and all of them happened to be white? What if I was selective and refuse my best friend? Would it change anything if I asked for some kind of compensation? Compensation larger than to cover my direct costs? Is it business yet? I am selling a used item and cancel the transaction if the buyer is black. Does it change anything if I resell items for a living and do the same? I am not asking if this is racism. All I am asking is whether there is any difference between displaying discrimination in human to human interactions and human to society interactions. I personally hate this hypocrisy of treating sharing economy as business when it is convenient and sharing between individuals when it is not. Very similar to general opinion I happen to read about Uber: since it is "ride sharing", therefore most regulations are excessive, yet drivers sharing full time is somehow a norm.
niftich 10y ago
AirBnB is a YC company, so I can see why this is relevant. But the biggest threat to their business model isn't hotels, or the behavior of hosts. It's that they're still in the 'disrupt' phase and none of their status quo has been tested in the courts. If there is alleged discrimination, some wronged party will eventually file suit, and the courts will decide whose rights are more pertinent. If there is alleged skirting of regulations, some wronged party will eventually file suit, etc. Until these threads play out, they're growing, but after, they could crumble overnight. This uncertainty is the biggest threat to their business.
wkimeria 10y ago
I think Airbnb (even leaving out the ‘skirting regulation’ stuff) is pretty much primed for discrimination. As soon as you require a photo of users you are doing that. It’s interesting to compare Airbnb and Uber (another company I’m leery of for skirting regulations). As a black man in Boston, catching at taxi was an exercise in humiliation/frustration. Either they did not stop, or they did and were incredibly rude/racist. When Uber became available in Boston I immediately joined. It was an incredible experience. No more having to deal with rude/racist cab drivers, no more having to worry whether I’d actually ever be able to catch a taxi to get somewhere. I have not used Uber in SF since I’ve found no problem catching a cab when I need to (and I’ve become disturbed by their business model) Airbnb is the exact opposite. It is essentially renting without the benefits of the Fair Housing Act or anti-discrimination laws. I’ve faced housing discrimination even with those laws in place (a good program on this is This American Life’s “House Rules” episode) so I’m under no illusion that things would magically be better on Airbnb’s platform. here are things they could do to fix this - Not require photos - Have metrics to track rejection by race (track when a host says no to one person and then yes to someone else for the same time period) - Have a streamlined complaint policy It’s not enough to ban one host cause he was so outright racist/egregious that it came to the attention of Social Media and finally their CEO.
Bombthecat 10y ago
I can confirm this. Even in Germany. My wife is black. Her sister wanted to visit, they are didn't came but that's another story. Back to the renting act. They are two parents and four kids. All black. Well, I'm white. So I tried to do the renting. Soon or later the topic will come up who will come.and fRom where etc. Told them, they are from Nigeria and have American passports. End of story. No one replied. Ever. People are still resists. Like it or not. Or they hate children. Make out of it what you want.

43 points by Kinnard 10y ago

As long as these are personal residences serving short term boarding needs I have no problem with people being openly racist. To help AirBnB should put a very large black and white banner on listings where the owners have racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. visitor restrictions. I know I can't bring my dog to certain places, I should know whether I can't invite my black friend.

yardie 10y ago
People hate being labeled racist more than actually being racist. Good example: Trumps feelings on undocumented immigrants being rapists and murderers.
- khattam 10y ago
  >Good example: Trumps feelings on undocumented immigrants being rapists and murderers. Terrible example for whatever point you wanted to make. Here is the original quote: >When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. So, what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to perform to conclude that he meant "undocumented immigrants are rapists and murderers"?
  - yardie 10y ago
    "they're rapists... And some are good people" Can I use this same logic for your typical Stanford, white male student? I'm pretty sure if I did I'd be considered the racist.
    - khattam 10y ago
      Yes, if 80% of Stanford females are victims of sexual abuse (like 80% of female illegal immigrants crossing the border are).
      - yardie 10y ago
        Raped by whom? Smugglers. And where are these rapist smugglers? In Mexico. So who is the Donald referring to doing all the raping? Mexican based smugglers or US based undocumented migrants?

Kinnard 10y ago

Particularly wondering what this community thinks as AirBnB is a YC company and some of the proposed solutions to this problem are startups: http://www.innclusive.com/ http://www.innclusive.com/ http://noirbnb.launchrock.com/ http://noirbnb.launchrock.com/

antihero 10y ago
This was actually my immediate reaction - so AirBNB because of it's size is going to attract some racist hosts because their demographic is "anyone with a room". If you create a site where the intended demographic is "anyone with a room that is pro-inclusivity", then surely you could create a community around people who self-select as not perpetuating racism/transphobia/general bigotry.
- prodigal_erik 10y ago
  Those people have embraced the idea of repressive tolerance and would proudly turn away religious pro-gun Trump supporters.

herbst 10y ago

I dont see how this is related to AirBnB. They may are a good case to study this phenomen but in reality it is the society that creates this fears. Ironically it isnt to far off ether. Where i live the majority of black youth have a bigger criminal history than their white peers. Sure this again fully depends on how the society treats them.

Kinnard 10y ago
Yes, AirBnB exists in a country with an entrenched legacy of discrimination. What they do about that on their platform is what matters here.
- herbst 10y ago
  Thats my point, what should they do? They created a community run platform, everything they would do now would just make the users angry. Also seriously, what should they do? They cant forbid people to decline users, nobody would use such a platform.
  - gohrt 10y ago
    > They cant forbid people to decline users, nobody would use such a platform. That's absurd. The USA is full of business running on platforms that are forbidden to discriminate against protected classes.
- drivingmenuts 10y ago
  What can they do about it, though? AirBnB doesn't own the property being rented. If it did, an anti-discrimination policy would be easier to enforce. AirBnB is essentially a jazzed-up listing service, not an actual hotelier, that is gouging out a buck while revealing the worst of our society.
return0 10y ago
Airbnb cant fix society, but they can easily enforce non-discrimination on their hosts.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

SJW outrage articles like these hopefully will die out as gawker-style journalism does. I don't see how this adds anything to any conversation other than the demographic that travels in the US is primarily white as the US itself is 77% white. I think there will always be perceived racism or other "isms." Playing up edge cases for ad imperssions seems questionable to me. There are 2 million listings on Airbnb, its clear edge cases will always be there. Also, it would be trivial to use this brand of multiculturalism to justify open racism. Why should a Chinese person in Chinatown who doesn't speak English allow a white family to stay in their property? Or allowing a Russian to deny a Ukranian? Or allowing a black family who have been victimized by the police to allow a family containing police officers. I imagine most SJW's would agree for "special exemptions" for these cases. The idea that no one should be turned down is asinine. These are people's homes and by the 4th Amendment the government can't shove people in them. Want to stay somewhere where they don't have these issues? Then call a hotel.

Kinnard 10y ago
Did you read through the article? It seems they're reporting on something airbnb users, the company, and academic researchers have recognized as a problem and what's being done about it, including a few startups. Not to mention the whole socially pertinent(Trump???) legacy of entrenched discrimination in the U.S.
- 101983801 10y ago
  Liberal tree-hugging anti-racist hippie here: I'm not sure if the original story is racism. If I (white) am staying in a Chinese apartment house that otherwise only has Chinese tenants then the likelihood that someone recognizes me as a non-tenant is 100%. Therefore, the likelihood that someone reports me as a stranger is far greater than if I were Chinese. In other words, I'd not be surprised if someone reported me (white) while staying in a (hypothetical) Chinese AirBnB. As far as "recognizing the problem" goes: You pretty much have to acknowledge a "problem" if something like this comes up or you'll be harassed on the Internet.
return0 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

mrits 10y ago

Can we keep these social justice warrior posts off hacker news?

Kinnard 10y ago
You don't think this is pertinent? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11960708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11960708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11645433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11645433
- mrits 10y ago
  I'd rather see the internet as an extension of human life rather than a chance to have public and private groups regulate it.
jdavis703 10y ago
But posts about Airbnb being banned or being able to have bans rescinded are fair game? Coverage of tech companies shouldn't be restricted to only a certain narrative.

guard-of-terra 10y ago

What's wrong with being "really, really" white? Why it's a "dirty secret"? That's a bit intolerant to my liking. (Not coming from USA if that matters)

return0 10y ago
The article makes a good case for a problem that clearly demands fixing. It's true however that the author chose a clickbaity style and title , instead of adding a paragraph about the obvious thing that can fix it (it doesn't sound that hard, obviously).
Cthulhu_ 10y ago
It's a clickbait and racist title; the article itself has nothing to do with white people, just two incidents. Which is what they are, incidents.

seibelj 10y ago

I was arguing with a friend that convicted felons shouldn't be discriminated against in job searches, or they will never become upstanding members of society. Then later I was thinking about how someday I'm going to rent out my apartment. And if I do a background check on a tenant, and it turns out they are a convicted felon, I honestly couldn't let them rent the apartment because it's too risky. I feel bad about it, but when it comes to risking my own assets, I can't do it!

MichaelGG 10y ago
This is why the government steps in and creates fairness laws (though not for felons). It's entirely plausible that an AirBnB renter unfamiliar with evaluating evidence might just look up US crime stats and come to an unfair conclusion on risk. AirBnB is sort of stuck though, since they want to maintain this "sharing economy" fiction, where it's just friendly homeowners sharing their places. They don't want to admit they are encouraging unlicensed hotels that don't follow the law.
Cshelton 10y ago
Welcome to the concept of Enlightened self interest. It's pretty much the same as, when poor: "The rich don't pay their fair share", and now if you become rich: "I pay a stupid amount in taxes". Many fiscally liberal/progressive ideas are centered around hypocrisy. Everyone likes to talk the talk, but they don't act upon it. Others call this human nature...

james_pm 10y ago

It's not really a secret that some AirBnB hosts discriminate on the basis of race, sexual orientation and other factors when deciding on which guests they allow to live in their homes. It's also no surprise that neighbours of those hosts also sometimes discriminate against guests who stay in their neighbourhood. AirBnB can definitely work towards educating hosts and guests to try to reduce the chances of this happening, but I'm not sure that it's their job to try and fix what is really a societal problem that is reflected in how people use their service.

MichaelGG 10y ago
The US collects racial information in crime statistics, right? So it should be one evaluation of Bayes' Theorem to demonstrate actual increased risk based on race, if any. Seems like it should be pretty trivial in some areas to demonstrate exactly what the probabilities are (and if they are even relevant if background rate of crime is low).

ercmilla 10y ago

So a guy all of a sudden sees strangers in his neighbors house. Nevermind their color - wouldn't you be suspicious if you all of a sudden saw 2 20-something dudes in your neighbors house? I know I would - I wouldn't even think twice about their color. This is the example the article is holding up as the example of racism and it isn't even racist. The trans example: I'm 100% for property owners deciding what they will and won't use their private property for. Get over it. You can't go through life getting offended at every opinion different from yours, even if you think it's irrational.

bluetidepro 10y ago
100% agree with all of this. While I'm not saying I would personally deny a trans person staying at my Airbnb, at the end of the day, it's the owner's decision. This isn't a public service where people of different race/color/religion/background/etc. are getting denied. It's all private property. It's 100% up to the owner what he/she/they want to use their property for, regardless of how ignorant/racist/stupid/etc. that choice may be.
- panzagl 10y ago
  A hotel is private property too, doesn't mean they can discriminate based on race in the US.
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    Hotels have regulations that private homes don't. Though many of AirBnB's "hosts" would probably qualify under more regulations than they actually follow.
    - panzagl 10y ago
      I guess I'm assuming the primary use of airbnb is 'rent my house', not 'stay in my guest room'. By offering both at the same place they really do seem to be muddying the waters.

notmarkus 10y ago

It's tempting as a host to reject people of a certain type, but the line that I draw isn't on race, gender or religion — it's age. I've come to find out that older folks — somewhere around 50+ — have been the worst possible guests, with no exceptions so far. They tend to be stingy with their star ratings and leave poor reviews even if they had a perfect experience. They also tend to be much more high-maintenance and not self-sufficient, acting as if they think the Airbnb is a hotel and the host is their concierge or room service. The cost-benefit ratio doesn't work for me in these cases, so I've been intentionally passing on older people recently and trying to fill my Airbnb with younger folks. I never see age mentioned as a factor for discrimination in articles like these, and it seems that it may not be legislated in the same way that the other factors are. But it feels like it's the exact same issue, and I'm willingly becoming more and more guilty of it.

MichaelGG 10y ago
Does AirBnB make it easy to view what ratings people have given? Certainly the history of an individual user provides much more useful, actionable information than any broad trait. It should be easy for hosts to say they only want people with X reviews where most of them are 4-5 stars. Or a better score that weights it based on the host rating (i.e. if a user's hosts generally get 5 stars, but this user rates them all 3 stars, then it's probably a problem with the user, so avoid.) Perhaps AirBnB doesn't want do to this to avoid putting pressure on renters.
- notmarkus 10y ago
  That would be a hugely useful metric for a host, but it actually is difficult to see how a user has rated their past hosts. The only method I know of is: view the user profile and look at their reviews, go to each host who reviewed them, search through their reviews to find the prospective guest. There are two points of failure here: if the guest didn't get reviewed by a host or if they didn't review a host. So when a guest only has 1-3 reviews, which seems to be about the average for older folks, it's hard to paint a picture. I did reject a guest through this method, though. Their reviews from hosts were actually all very good, but when I read their reviews of their hosts, they contained things like "he was nice enough to give me a ride to the airport when I asked, though the car was a bit cramped."

Kinnard 10y ago

It appears this story has been flagged. It's dropped off the homepage rather suddenly. I can't find it ten pages deep. Blackernews anyone . . . HN wanna ring in?

jrs235 10y ago
Your second line, "Blackernews anyone...", is unnecessary.
- Kinnard 10y ago
  I think it's rather salient: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11960708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11960708
dang 10y ago
Users flagged the story. Since to judge by the comments in this thread they were partly reacting to the linkbait title, we've replaced the title with that of the URL* and turned off the flags. * That's something we often do: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11939165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11939165

Cshelton 10y ago

It's a private host offering to rent out to private guest. They can accept or deny anyone they please to for ANY REASON they feel. That can be race, gender, religion, anything...it doesn't matter. Go find a new hosts then or don't use Airbnb. This problem is NOT Airbnb's to solve. In fact, I don't see this as a problem at all. If I don't want somebody staying at my place, I'm going to reject you, period. That's it...you can't sue me, nor Airbnb, stop crying discrimination, move on.

negamax 10y ago
That's really weird perspective. Because the moment you are making a listing in the marketplace (Airbnb in this case). You are selling a good or service. And denying that good or service based on someone's race is definitely unlawful as it should be.

IanDrake 10y ago

There is latent racism on Airbnb, but I think they're looking at it the wrong way. We have two properties on Airbnb and instead of my white and shaved ugly head, my wife is on profile picture (she's asian). We get far more requests from minorities than is normal. Basically, we've cornered the market on asian people visiting Cape Cod. It's not our doing, but there is clearly a selection bias by renters, which I think is human nature.

makomk 10y ago
Your experience would easily be explained by other AirBNB hosts not renting to non-whites.

deleted 10y ago

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friendzis 10y ago

Would it change anything if this was about couchsurfing (free service) rather than airbnb? If it was about white co-renters voting against new black tenants? What if I was traveling a lot and would let my friends use my car and/or stay at my house and all of them happened to be white? What if I was selective and refuse my best friend? Would it change anything if I asked for some kind of compensation? Compensation larger than to cover my direct costs? Is it business yet? I am selling a used item and cancel the transaction if the buyer is black. Does it change anything if I resell items for a living and do the same? I am not asking if this is racism. All I am asking is whether there is any difference between displaying discrimination in human to human interactions and human to society interactions. I personally hate this hypocrisy of treating sharing economy as business when it is convenient and sharing between individuals when it is not. Very similar to general opinion I happen to read about Uber: since it is "ride sharing", therefore most regulations are excessive, yet drivers sharing full time is somehow a norm.

niftich 10y ago

AirBnB is a YC company, so I can see why this is relevant. But the biggest threat to their business model isn't hotels, or the behavior of hosts. It's that they're still in the 'disrupt' phase and none of their status quo has been tested in the courts. If there is alleged discrimination, some wronged party will eventually file suit, and the courts will decide whose rights are more pertinent. If there is alleged skirting of regulations, some wronged party will eventually file suit, etc. Until these threads play out, they're growing, but after, they could crumble overnight. This uncertainty is the biggest threat to their business.

wkimeria 10y ago

I think Airbnb (even leaving out the ‘skirting regulation’ stuff) is pretty much primed for discrimination. As soon as you require a photo of users you are doing that. It’s interesting to compare Airbnb and Uber (another company I’m leery of for skirting regulations). As a black man in Boston, catching at taxi was an exercise in humiliation/frustration. Either they did not stop, or they did and were incredibly rude/racist. When Uber became available in Boston I immediately joined. It was an incredible experience. No more having to deal with rude/racist cab drivers, no more having to worry whether I’d actually ever be able to catch a taxi to get somewhere. I have not used Uber in SF since I’ve found no problem catching a cab when I need to (and I’ve become disturbed by their business model) Airbnb is the exact opposite. It is essentially renting without the benefits of the Fair Housing Act or anti-discrimination laws. I’ve faced housing discrimination even with those laws in place (a good program on this is This American Life’s “House Rules” episode) so I’m under no illusion that things would magically be better on Airbnb’s platform. here are things they could do to fix this - Not require photos - Have metrics to track rejection by race (track when a host says no to one person and then yes to someone else for the same time period) - Have a streamlined complaint policy It’s not enough to ban one host cause he was so outright racist/egregious that it came to the attention of Social Media and finally their CEO.

Bombthecat 10y ago

I can confirm this. Even in Germany. My wife is black. Her sister wanted to visit, they are didn't came but that's another story. Back to the renting act. They are two parents and four kids. All black. Well, I'm white. So I tried to do the renting. Soon or later the topic will come up who will come.and fRom where etc. Told them, they are from Nigeria and have American passports. End of story. No one replied. Ever. People are still resists. Like it or not. Or they hate children. Make out of it what you want.