4 ms·

As a shooter in the UK, with a Shotgun Certificate, I don't really understand why people are so against having some gun control -- I mean the background check t

As a shooter in the UK, with a Shotgun Certificate, I don't really understand why people are so against having some gun control -- I mean the background check the police did on me before giving me a SGC was fine; quite frankly I felt safer afterward. Now of course, there's a case for saying that once they start putting restrictions in, they will start to creep -- and it's true, in europe now there's bans on pretty much everything, including fully deactivated weapons used by the reenactors! So here goes, two paragraphs and no solution from me!

moron4hire 10y ago
We have background checks.
- PakG1 10y ago
  If that were true, what's the debate about? As far as I can see (Canadian, so not vested in the topic), whatever checks exist are not consistent and not comprehensive. Comprehensiveness appears to be key. I remember Obama saying only 1 week before Orlando that there was someone that the FBI knew to be an ISIS sympathizer, and yet the law wouldn't let them put his name on a list to prevent guns from being sold to him. What's the use of a background check that doesn't turn up the necessary information? If background checks exist, they do not appear to be consistent, nor do they appear to be given the teeth necessary to be effective.
  - travisby 10y ago
    It turns up information on 'prohibited persons,' which are convicted people. Felons, and anyone with a misdemeanor in domestic violence. Is it a crime to be an ISIS sympathizer? Has he been convicted of a crime? Did the FBI have enough information to charge him and throw him in jail? Should they be able to say anybody is a potential ISIS sympathizer and now nobody can fly on a plane or own a gun without any sort of remediation process? The background check network can only be used by professional dealers (to "make money" selling firearms you need to be a licensed dealer and any firearms you sell need to include a background check) -- this includes professional dealers at gun shows. What doesn't involve a background check in many states is buying from a friend, or another third party person -- think more of an impromptu swap meet.
    - moron4hire 10y ago
      20 states require background check for private transfer.
      - travisby 10y ago
        I believe it's more around 8? Not my usual source for gun information but - http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/universal-background-checks/ http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-che... --- On a side note, rather than editting my post I'll say here -- I realized what I said at the end was a little disengenuous to make it seem more righteous. Buying a gun from a private person is more like buying a lawn mower from either your neighbor, girlfriend, or some random guy you meet on craigslist.
        moron4hire 10y ago
        It's not exactly the same as buying a lawn mower from a neighbor. Even states that don't perform a background check still require the sale to be made through a licensed dealer, with a transfer of ownership recorded. Given you can't know what the person will do with the gun (or who they might transfer it to, or get it stolen by), you'd be stupid to not perform an official transfer of ownership on a personal sale. Will requiring background checks on all gun sales actually reduce the number of guns sold to bad people? Most of these states that don't have background-check requirements for private sales do have laws that make it illegal to sell a gun to anyone who is not legally able to possess one. So these sales are already illegal. Is making them "extra special illegal" going to make a difference? I'm not actually opposed to universal background checks. I'm just not sure it will have a big impact on overall violent crime. I'm definitely not convinced it will have any impact on mass shootings. Mass shootings are just an incredibly different beast than most other violent crime. I'd say it has more in common with rape than with murder or assault, because they both come from deeply narcissistic world-views. What are we doing about the growing narcissism problem in the world?
jkot 10y ago
> in europe now there's bans on pretty much everything Czech republic is pretty liberal (conceal carry, attack rifles...) and we have lower crime rate than UK. > I don't really understand why people are so against having some gun control Problems: 1) not everyone lives in a big city, where police is on every corner. In remote rural areas it takes hours before cops even arrive. Some people simply need gun for living. 2) Regulations always get more strict over time. Eventually everything will be banned (knife, pepper spray...). In UK it is illegal to carry a screw driver on street. 3) People are motivated not to report crimes. There was a case when girl escaped a rape, but was charged for possession of illegal weapon, and for using a pepper spray on her attacker. With regulations, it would be best for her, not to even report that attack.
- elthran 10y ago
  > 2) Regulations always get more strict over time. Eventually everything will be banned (knife, pepper spray...). In UK it is illegal to carry a screw driver on street. Not completely true. It's not illegal to be carrying a screwdriver/fixed blade knife/other dangerous implement in public if you have a valid reason for it. We are not going to arrest an electrician walking down the street, but we will question the guy in a hooded tracksuit loitering outside the bookmakers with a screwdriver
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    ...waiting for their girlfriend, and they just bought the screwdriver to fix her hair dryer. When 'rights' are relative that way, its just a blank check to hassle people based on profiling?

moron4hire 10y ago

We have background checks.

PakG1 10y ago
If that were true, what's the debate about? As far as I can see (Canadian, so not vested in the topic), whatever checks exist are not consistent and not comprehensive. Comprehensiveness appears to be key. I remember Obama saying only 1 week before Orlando that there was someone that the FBI knew to be an ISIS sympathizer, and yet the law wouldn't let them put his name on a list to prevent guns from being sold to him. What's the use of a background check that doesn't turn up the necessary information? If background checks exist, they do not appear to be consistent, nor do they appear to be given the teeth necessary to be effective.
- travisby 10y ago
  It turns up information on 'prohibited persons,' which are convicted people. Felons, and anyone with a misdemeanor in domestic violence. Is it a crime to be an ISIS sympathizer? Has he been convicted of a crime? Did the FBI have enough information to charge him and throw him in jail? Should they be able to say anybody is a potential ISIS sympathizer and now nobody can fly on a plane or own a gun without any sort of remediation process? The background check network can only be used by professional dealers (to "make money" selling firearms you need to be a licensed dealer and any firearms you sell need to include a background check) -- this includes professional dealers at gun shows. What doesn't involve a background check in many states is buying from a friend, or another third party person -- think more of an impromptu swap meet.
  - moron4hire 10y ago
    20 states require background check for private transfer.
    - travisby 10y ago
      I believe it's more around 8? Not my usual source for gun information but - http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/universal-background-checks/ http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-che... --- On a side note, rather than editting my post I'll say here -- I realized what I said at the end was a little disengenuous to make it seem more righteous. Buying a gun from a private person is more like buying a lawn mower from either your neighbor, girlfriend, or some random guy you meet on craigslist.
      - moron4hire 10y ago
        It's not exactly the same as buying a lawn mower from a neighbor. Even states that don't perform a background check still require the sale to be made through a licensed dealer, with a transfer of ownership recorded. Given you can't know what the person will do with the gun (or who they might transfer it to, or get it stolen by), you'd be stupid to not perform an official transfer of ownership on a personal sale. Will requiring background checks on all gun sales actually reduce the number of guns sold to bad people? Most of these states that don't have background-check requirements for private sales do have laws that make it illegal to sell a gun to anyone who is not legally able to possess one. So these sales are already illegal. Is making them "extra special illegal" going to make a difference? I'm not actually opposed to universal background checks. I'm just not sure it will have a big impact on overall violent crime. I'm definitely not convinced it will have any impact on mass shootings. Mass shootings are just an incredibly different beast than most other violent crime. I'd say it has more in common with rape than with murder or assault, because they both come from deeply narcissistic world-views. What are we doing about the growing narcissism problem in the world?

jkot 10y ago

> in europe now there's bans on pretty much everything Czech republic is pretty liberal (conceal carry, attack rifles...) and we have lower crime rate than UK. > I don't really understand why people are so against having some gun control Problems: 1) not everyone lives in a big city, where police is on every corner. In remote rural areas it takes hours before cops even arrive. Some people simply need gun for living. 2) Regulations always get more strict over time. Eventually everything will be banned (knife, pepper spray...). In UK it is illegal to carry a screw driver on street. 3) People are motivated not to report crimes. There was a case when girl escaped a rape, but was charged for possession of illegal weapon, and for using a pepper spray on her attacker. With regulations, it would be best for her, not to even report that attack.

elthran 10y ago
> 2) Regulations always get more strict over time. Eventually everything will be banned (knife, pepper spray...). In UK it is illegal to carry a screw driver on street. Not completely true. It's not illegal to be carrying a screwdriver/fixed blade knife/other dangerous implement in public if you have a valid reason for it. We are not going to arrest an electrician walking down the street, but we will question the guy in a hooded tracksuit loitering outside the bookmakers with a screwdriver
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  ...waiting for their girlfriend, and they just bought the screwdriver to fix her hair dryer. When 'rights' are relative that way, its just a blank check to hassle people based on profiling?