3 ms·

Amazing how a bigger focus is placed on getting certain demographics to use a programming language rather than focusing on improvement of the language itself.

maggit 10y ago
Where did you get "bigger focus" from? It seems to me they are hard at work improving the language all the time.
- itxifxuf 10y ago
  Programming languages are for programming, not capturing token demographics. This shouldn't even be a consideration.
  - Perceptes 10y ago
    Programming languages are used for and by humans. The experience of the people using the language plays a massive role in the success of the language and of the software built with it.
    - itxifxuf 10y ago
      So why are we needlessly injecting race and sexual orientation into something that used to be just about programming? Are we tracking the demographics for lawn sprinkler users with equally bated breath? Stop trying to insert your identity politics into everything. Let's just leave a few pure things in this world, please.
      - shadowmint 10y ago
        oh come on. just stuck it up, we don't need grand standing on this topic here. Rust has had a code of conduct from the beginning too; that's their choice. Its also part of the Mozilla charter I believe. If you don't like it, tough luck. Run your own project however you like, but you've got no ground to stand on how others run theirs.
        itxifxuf 10y ago
        >Run your own project however you like, but you've got no ground to stand on how others run theirs. So where were you when Brendan Eich got canned?
      - badsock 10y ago
        What I don't get is how you consider this such an important crusade to go on. Is collecting the opinions of under-represented groups such an objectively damaging thing that you're going to spent your limited energy and time on earth fighting that? Can you seriously think of no better things to be concerned about?
dochtman 10y ago
I would argue that the language will benefit from having more diverse feedback.
- adrusi 10y ago
  Does anybody actually believe that diverse cultural backgrounds are at all relevant to ideas about programming language design or compiler programming? Claims that diversity is good for project organization sound believable, but I see no reason to think the diversity of background has any impact on technical contributions. There is no moral obligation to have a diverse group, just to have a group that is tolerant of diversity, in the interest of fairness for members of minority groups. Encouraging actual diversity is just a strategy to avoid letting people who don't care about this stuff develop bubbles of intolerance in homogenous bubbles where intolerance isn't challenged regularly. The presence of diversity indicates a lack of intolerance, but a group consisting entirely of one demographic could be just as tolerant, and its homogeneity just a coincidence or a result of lack of advertising. So I find it a little strange when a group is "congratulated" on its diversity.
  - eximius 10y ago
    Thank you for coherently and politely saying what others have said in... less eloquent terms. I think many people feel this way but find it difficult to express in these contexts without coming off as (or at least being accused of) a bigot or something. My post above was a super-passive expression of this.
  - alienated 10y ago
    > but I see no reason to think the diversity of background has any impact on technical contributions Exactly this. The internet is the great equalizer. There is no need for anyone to know anything about me unless I choose to bring it up. For a technical project, conducted and run over the internet, my work can stand entirely on its merits in a way that would not be possible in a regular office environment.
- alienated 10y ago
  Since you are prepared to make that argument, in what way will it benefit? Does the color of my skin, my gender or my sexual orientation matter when providing feedback for a project such as this? I would argue that those things are entirely irrelevant in this context, and wouldn't want them connected/associated with any contribution I made.

maggit 10y ago

Where did you get "bigger focus" from? It seems to me they are hard at work improving the language all the time.

itxifxuf 10y ago
Programming languages are for programming, not capturing token demographics. This shouldn't even be a consideration.
- Perceptes 10y ago
  Programming languages are used for and by humans. The experience of the people using the language plays a massive role in the success of the language and of the software built with it.
  - itxifxuf 10y ago
    So why are we needlessly injecting race and sexual orientation into something that used to be just about programming? Are we tracking the demographics for lawn sprinkler users with equally bated breath? Stop trying to insert your identity politics into everything. Let's just leave a few pure things in this world, please.
    - shadowmint 10y ago
      oh come on. just stuck it up, we don't need grand standing on this topic here. Rust has had a code of conduct from the beginning too; that's their choice. Its also part of the Mozilla charter I believe. If you don't like it, tough luck. Run your own project however you like, but you've got no ground to stand on how others run theirs.
      - itxifxuf 10y ago
        >Run your own project however you like, but you've got no ground to stand on how others run theirs. So where were you when Brendan Eich got canned?
    - badsock 10y ago
      What I don't get is how you consider this such an important crusade to go on. Is collecting the opinions of under-represented groups such an objectively damaging thing that you're going to spent your limited energy and time on earth fighting that? Can you seriously think of no better things to be concerned about?

dochtman 10y ago

I would argue that the language will benefit from having more diverse feedback.

adrusi 10y ago
Does anybody actually believe that diverse cultural backgrounds are at all relevant to ideas about programming language design or compiler programming? Claims that diversity is good for project organization sound believable, but I see no reason to think the diversity of background has any impact on technical contributions. There is no moral obligation to have a diverse group, just to have a group that is tolerant of diversity, in the interest of fairness for members of minority groups. Encouraging actual diversity is just a strategy to avoid letting people who don't care about this stuff develop bubbles of intolerance in homogenous bubbles where intolerance isn't challenged regularly. The presence of diversity indicates a lack of intolerance, but a group consisting entirely of one demographic could be just as tolerant, and its homogeneity just a coincidence or a result of lack of advertising. So I find it a little strange when a group is "congratulated" on its diversity.
- eximius 10y ago
  Thank you for coherently and politely saying what others have said in... less eloquent terms. I think many people feel this way but find it difficult to express in these contexts without coming off as (or at least being accused of) a bigot or something. My post above was a super-passive expression of this.
- alienated 10y ago
  > but I see no reason to think the diversity of background has any impact on technical contributions Exactly this. The internet is the great equalizer. There is no need for anyone to know anything about me unless I choose to bring it up. For a technical project, conducted and run over the internet, my work can stand entirely on its merits in a way that would not be possible in a regular office environment.
alienated 10y ago
Since you are prepared to make that argument, in what way will it benefit? Does the color of my skin, my gender or my sexual orientation matter when providing feedback for a project such as this? I would argue that those things are entirely irrelevant in this context, and wouldn't want them connected/associated with any contribution I made.