9 ms·

This is rather surprising, and also not. On one hand, it makes sense that a European (see: Rich and believes in climate change) country wouldn't want to frack u

This is rather surprising, and also not. On one hand, it makes sense that a European (see: Rich and believes in climate change) country wouldn't want to frack under their own soil (I'm not against fracking but I am also happy it is banned here in New York) but fracking can certainly be done safely effectively if the right regulations are in place and enforced. The only reason we see so many bad cases of fracking effects like earthquakes and so on is because the states that allow fracking also don't bother to regulate it. So it's just a matter of extra cost and engineering, which can decrease that relative cost over time. Besides, if anyone can engineer themselves out of a problem, it's the Germans.

fleitz 10y ago
Anyone who has taken a German car in for maintenance also knows we're quite capable of engineering ourselves into a problem as well. That said, it's nice kit when it's well-maintained and regularly serviced.
- DasIch 10y ago
  In Germany by law every car needs to inspected every two years by the TÜV. Cars are highly regulated in terms of what modifications you may perform on them and anything even slightly significant requires approval. If you want to sell a car at decent value or you're leasing it, you're practically required to also perform the inspections offered by manufacturers. When well-maintained and regularly serviced is the norm, it's inevitably going to influence your design.
  - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
    Is that why single engine airplanes are so complicated? \s
  - Oletros 10y ago
    > In Germany by law every car needs to inspected every two years by the TÜV. Cars are highly regulated in terms of what modifications you may perform on them and anything even slightly significant requires approval. Is this a German thing or an EU thing? Because in Spain you have to pass the ITV every to years until the car has 10 years and then, every year. And almost any modification has to pass that inspection
    - DasIch 10y ago
      The German regulation has existed for a long time, I doubt that's due to the EU. However you want to be able to sell and drive a everywhere in the EU. It only makes sense to deal with this on a EU level to harmonize existing regulation and force members lacking such regulations to implement it. If that hasn't happened already (which I find hard to believe), it will.
    - mtmail 10y ago
      Every(?) European country has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection of some kind. Turkey adopted the German system last year. I wouldn't be surprised if the EU standardises the regulations at some point in the future.
  - fleitz 10y ago
    That's part of it, but it doesn't quite explain the front suspension on a BMW bike. No one else makes a suspension so complicated, however, no one else has a bike that doesn't dive under braking. The engineers knew it was possible and pulled out every stop to deliver it. It's a cultural thing, when we see a problem it must be fixed no matter how much complexity. It's like when I'm making an app and there's a 5 fps drop when the a new table view cell is rendered, everyone I show can barely notice it, but I see it, and it bothers me until it's fixed. 60 FPS or GTFO.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      > It's a cultural thing, when we see a problem it must be fixed no matter how much complexity. > but I see it, and it bothers me until it's fixed. This is where my love of Germany comes from.
      - davrosthedalek 10y ago
        Until you realize that we are so good at it that we then engineer problems for you/us to solve....
DasIch 10y ago
It's not at all surprising. Germany has for decades now been very environmentally conscious. This is why Germany is doing the Energiewende and have had plans to shut down nuclear reactors since long before Fukushima. Given fracking in the US as an example, it's no surprise at all that you'd find broad support for heavy regulation or a ban of fracking. What's surprising about this is that it took so long.
- fleitz 10y ago
  Oil isn't a big industry in Germany, this is like Canada banning slaughtering of monkeys for palm oil, purely political, no one in Canada is going to have to shut down their palm orchards.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- Fiahil 10y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but nuclear reactors have nothing to do with climate change. Reading GP then your reply seems ambiguous about the "environmentally conscious".
  - patall 10y ago
    He does not mention climate change at all. Germanys antinuclear movement is against nuclear reactors because it is still unclear what happens to the waste. Remind you that were are speaking of a country that is populated quite evenly, there is no space where you could leave it for ever with noone affected. Same for fracking: somebody will live in the area where fracking occurs. But big money does not care about these people. Therefore Germans are against it altogether.
    - chris_va 10y ago
      Waste disposal is almost entirely political. That Germany is shutting down the objectively cleanest reliable source of energy is tragic. All of the nuclear waste Germany generates would fit in a single football stadium. Technically you'd pick something below the water table and geographically stable, like say, a salt mine. Burning coal produces more nuclear waste, it just dumps it all into the atmosphere.
lukasm 10y ago
Russians have the greatest incentive for this ban, since they supply 1/3 of Germany consumption. Fracking has lowered the prices of oil and gas which is the greatest threat to stability of Russian Federation.

fleitz 10y ago

Anyone who has taken a German car in for maintenance also knows we're quite capable of engineering ourselves into a problem as well. That said, it's nice kit when it's well-maintained and regularly serviced.

DasIch 10y ago
In Germany by law every car needs to inspected every two years by the TÜV. Cars are highly regulated in terms of what modifications you may perform on them and anything even slightly significant requires approval. If you want to sell a car at decent value or you're leasing it, you're practically required to also perform the inspections offered by manufacturers. When well-maintained and regularly serviced is the norm, it's inevitably going to influence your design.
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  Is that why single engine airplanes are so complicated? \s
- Oletros 10y ago
  > In Germany by law every car needs to inspected every two years by the TÜV. Cars are highly regulated in terms of what modifications you may perform on them and anything even slightly significant requires approval. Is this a German thing or an EU thing? Because in Spain you have to pass the ITV every to years until the car has 10 years and then, every year. And almost any modification has to pass that inspection
  - DasIch 10y ago
    The German regulation has existed for a long time, I doubt that's due to the EU. However you want to be able to sell and drive a everywhere in the EU. It only makes sense to deal with this on a EU level to harmonize existing regulation and force members lacking such regulations to implement it. If that hasn't happened already (which I find hard to believe), it will.
  - mtmail 10y ago
    Every(?) European country has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection of some kind. Turkey adopted the German system last year. I wouldn't be surprised if the EU standardises the regulations at some point in the future.
- fleitz 10y ago
  That's part of it, but it doesn't quite explain the front suspension on a BMW bike. No one else makes a suspension so complicated, however, no one else has a bike that doesn't dive under braking. The engineers knew it was possible and pulled out every stop to deliver it. It's a cultural thing, when we see a problem it must be fixed no matter how much complexity. It's like when I'm making an app and there's a 5 fps drop when the a new table view cell is rendered, everyone I show can barely notice it, but I see it, and it bothers me until it's fixed. 60 FPS or GTFO.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    > It's a cultural thing, when we see a problem it must be fixed no matter how much complexity. > but I see it, and it bothers me until it's fixed. This is where my love of Germany comes from.
    - davrosthedalek 10y ago
      Until you realize that we are so good at it that we then engineer problems for you/us to solve....

DasIch 10y ago

It's not at all surprising. Germany has for decades now been very environmentally conscious. This is why Germany is doing the Energiewende and have had plans to shut down nuclear reactors since long before Fukushima. Given fracking in the US as an example, it's no surprise at all that you'd find broad support for heavy regulation or a ban of fracking. What's surprising about this is that it took so long.

fleitz 10y ago
Oil isn't a big industry in Germany, this is like Canada banning slaughtering of monkeys for palm oil, purely political, no one in Canada is going to have to shut down their palm orchards.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
Fiahil 10y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but nuclear reactors have nothing to do with climate change. Reading GP then your reply seems ambiguous about the "environmentally conscious".
- patall 10y ago
  He does not mention climate change at all. Germanys antinuclear movement is against nuclear reactors because it is still unclear what happens to the waste. Remind you that were are speaking of a country that is populated quite evenly, there is no space where you could leave it for ever with noone affected. Same for fracking: somebody will live in the area where fracking occurs. But big money does not care about these people. Therefore Germans are against it altogether.
  - chris_va 10y ago
    Waste disposal is almost entirely political. That Germany is shutting down the objectively cleanest reliable source of energy is tragic. All of the nuclear waste Germany generates would fit in a single football stadium. Technically you'd pick something below the water table and geographically stable, like say, a salt mine. Burning coal produces more nuclear waste, it just dumps it all into the atmosphere.

lukasm 10y ago

Russians have the greatest incentive for this ban, since they supply 1/3 of Germany consumption. Fracking has lowered the prices of oil and gas which is the greatest threat to stability of Russian Federation.