5 ms·

The problem with most economic theories is that they neglect the phenomenon of entitlement. Since welfare was invented, more and more people find the utility of

by bawana 10y ago

The problem with most economic theories is that they neglect the phenomenon of entitlement. Since welfare was invented, more and more people find the utility of their choices distorted. They will spend discretionary income on luxury goods and use welfare to obtain the necessities. I find more and more people using their cash to buy cell phones, big screen tv, etc. but they are still unemployed, getting Medicaid as well as disability income sometimes. So the decision to purchase a luxury good (like honey) sometimes does not respond to price hikes as one would expect. Normal users might stop buying it as the price goes up but 'entitled' users may continue buying it and thus they become even more dependent on welfare (and our taxes) for survival.

pc86 10y ago
Where do you live that earned income does not affect welfare income? I make a good living and can't go out and buy a Maserati then say "oh darn I'm out of money, better go grab a welfare check for groceries this week." If someone's buying $20 jars of locally sourced honey they're almost certainly not on welfare.
- brbsix 10y ago
  Welfare income is not affected by money earned working under the table or selling drugs.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    There are tens of millions of recipients of welfare income. The idea that any statistical significant number of them is selling drugs is so out of touch with reality (and borderline racist, because it draws from minority stereotypes first and foremost) that it's not even funny.
    - brbsix 10y ago
      OP wondered in what circumstances people have money for luxury goods yet still qualify for welfare, so I named two. I've come across plenty of people who receive some sort of public aid (e.g. subsidized housing, SNAP, Medi-Cal) who fall in the aforementioned categories. I don't have the slightest clue how representative they are and I don't really care one way or another. Whatever interpretations you make of this are yours alone.
coldtea 10y ago
That's mostly a myth, from observing poor blacks etc sporting expensive sneakers or some large-ass TV, and assuming their spending habits are generally like that. Those "luxury items" are not what the huge majority of welfare spending is about, and welfare is not the reason for them (people which make very little without welfare also splurge for similar purchases -- they serve as compensating factors for the lack of means, and even serve to improve their standing among their peers). Human needs are not animal needs, to end with survival. Here are some starting pointers: http://usuncut.com/politics/6-common-welfare-myths-we-all-need-to-stop-believing/ http://usuncut.com/politics/6-common-welfare-myths-we-all-ne...
- brianlweiner 10y ago
  Also a surprising amount of welfare spending (via TANF) is spent on programs that aren't necessarily utilized by the poor.
soundwave106 10y ago
I think you are severely mis-identifying the issues that might cause demand for local / raw honey. :) For a start, you have the general "from farm to table" / locally sourced / organic trends that are on the up-stream (this is often are pure marketing, of course). In honey's case, however, there are many strong additional factors: - Many stories about fake honey flooding in from unscrupulous producers. There was plenty of stories about that in the United States a few years ago (some exaggerated, but then there's stories like this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-19/how-germany-s-alw-got-busted-for-the-largest-food-fraud-in-u-dot-s-dot-history http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-19/how-german...). This in my opinion is actually a legitimate reason to stick local (at least until this can be controlled). Why spend $4.50/lb to get "honey" that might be some potentially adulterated crap where you can go to a local producer, spend $9/lb, and get the genuine deal? - Greater varieties. Local producers tend to offer quite a bit more variety of honey flavors. Typically stores only offer a few, mostly lighter flavors of honey, with clover dominating the marketplace. - "Raw foods" movements. There are a lot of claims about raw honey that probably aren't very true, but they probably drive additional demand. I do think there is a slight taste difference at least between unpasteurized / unfiltered honey and its pasteurized, filtered product (the former tending to be a bit richer). I personally don't see the demand for raw honey being so huge that it's causing that massive of a demand (at least in the US). Elsewise, the price would probably go up more. As it is, the cheapest raw honey (your clovers and orange blossoms etc.) is only roughly twice the price of standard clover honey. A $9 / pound good is not exactly the strongest "luxury good" to make an entitlement rant over. :)

by bawana 10y ago

pc86 10y ago

Where do you live that earned income does not affect welfare income? I make a good living and can't go out and buy a Maserati then say "oh darn I'm out of money, better go grab a welfare check for groceries this week." If someone's buying $20 jars of locally sourced honey they're almost certainly not on welfare.

brbsix 10y ago
Welfare income is not affected by money earned working under the table or selling drugs.
- coldtea 10y ago
  There are tens of millions of recipients of welfare income. The idea that any statistical significant number of them is selling drugs is so out of touch with reality (and borderline racist, because it draws from minority stereotypes first and foremost) that it's not even funny.
  - brbsix 10y ago
    OP wondered in what circumstances people have money for luxury goods yet still qualify for welfare, so I named two. I've come across plenty of people who receive some sort of public aid (e.g. subsidized housing, SNAP, Medi-Cal) who fall in the aforementioned categories. I don't have the slightest clue how representative they are and I don't really care one way or another. Whatever interpretations you make of this are yours alone.

coldtea 10y ago

That's mostly a myth, from observing poor blacks etc sporting expensive sneakers or some large-ass TV, and assuming their spending habits are generally like that. Those "luxury items" are not what the huge majority of welfare spending is about, and welfare is not the reason for them (people which make very little without welfare also splurge for similar purchases -- they serve as compensating factors for the lack of means, and even serve to improve their standing among their peers). Human needs are not animal needs, to end with survival. Here are some starting pointers: http://usuncut.com/politics/6-common-welfare-myths-we-all-need-to-stop-believing/ http://usuncut.com/politics/6-common-welfare-myths-we-all-ne...

brianlweiner 10y ago
Also a surprising amount of welfare spending (via TANF) is spent on programs that aren't necessarily utilized by the poor.

soundwave106 10y ago

I think you are severely mis-identifying the issues that might cause demand for local / raw honey. :) For a start, you have the general "from farm to table" / locally sourced / organic trends that are on the up-stream (this is often are pure marketing, of course). In honey's case, however, there are many strong additional factors: - Many stories about fake honey flooding in from unscrupulous producers. There was plenty of stories about that in the United States a few years ago (some exaggerated, but then there's stories like this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-19/how-germany-s-alw-got-busted-for-the-largest-food-fraud-in-u-dot-s-dot-history http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-19/how-german...). This in my opinion is actually a legitimate reason to stick local (at least until this can be controlled). Why spend $4.50/lb to get "honey" that might be some potentially adulterated crap where you can go to a local producer, spend $9/lb, and get the genuine deal? - Greater varieties. Local producers tend to offer quite a bit more variety of honey flavors. Typically stores only offer a few, mostly lighter flavors of honey, with clover dominating the marketplace. - "Raw foods" movements. There are a lot of claims about raw honey that probably aren't very true, but they probably drive additional demand. I do think there is a slight taste difference at least between unpasteurized / unfiltered honey and its pasteurized, filtered product (the former tending to be a bit richer). I personally don't see the demand for raw honey being so huge that it's causing that massive of a demand (at least in the US). Elsewise, the price would probably go up more. As it is, the cheapest raw honey (your clovers and orange blossoms etc.) is only roughly twice the price of standard clover honey. A $9 / pound good is not exactly the strongest "luxury good" to make an entitlement rant over. :)