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So basically we have UK businesses selling to europe expressing their interest in keeping 0 tax trade agreements with europe. Their position makes sense from th

So basically we have UK businesses selling to europe expressing their interest in keeping 0 tax trade agreements with europe. Their position makes sense from their perspective. How about UK businesses which DO NOT export and have to compete with low cost european countries instead? How about UK employees which also have to compete with low cost labor from low cost european countries? Is this also "great for the UK?"

eulji 10y ago
Uh and how other global economies compete ? So you want to protect these employees by "artificial" regulations ? Judging by your surname your ancestors were also fleeing from one of those low cost european countries.
rlpb 10y ago
The UK is a net importer from the EU[1]. [1] https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/OTS.aspx https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatisti...
marcospri 10y ago
Not sure there are many businesses that compete with "low cost" european countries but not with non-european low cost ones
muse5000 10y ago
getting out is not going to change anything that you mentioned, its like Boris trying to underline that British Steel was EU's fault... I mean what?... Its clearly the case were production has a cut back globally and the need of steel is not there anymore plus China overproducing... how's that EU? For the UK employees that have to compete with low cost labor... I don't think that's the case mate, its an open market, if you are good at what you are doing you are going to get valued. Lets see what you and Boris are going to say to all those people working in Universities that are going to shut down as their main source of income are EU students.
- jklepatch 10y ago
  Yes if you are very skilled you increase your chance to find a job, but this simplistic reasoning does not apply to every industry. In some cases you can be extremely skilled professionally and still be jobless if you have to compete with an equally competent (or less..) employee in a country where labor is way cheaper. The competition becomes especially unfair in this case. About the example of universities, I dont advocate closing borders. I believe in self determination and industry/country to country bilateral agreements. It might be more difficult to put in place but it reflects people best interest and it is democratic. If UK universities believe its in their best interest to allow more foreign students, then they should lobby for this. There will be winnders and losers thats for sure. Not everyone would be better off. But I believe that the overall effect would be positive. Lastly, please consider the many countries in the world who are succesful without relying on major trade agreements. Instead they have negotiated many bilateral trade agreements with other countries. These reflect their best interest, for each industry.
richmarr 10y ago
> How about UK businesses which DO NOT export... ...or import ...or use goods and services reliant on imports. > ... and have to compete How do you propose avoiding having to compete? Isolationism is a short-term solution. Edit: ...a short-term solution AT BEST
MrLeftHand 10y ago
Sorry, but is it the EUs fault that UK businesses tend to hire cheaper European labor? Does the EU tell you that you have to hire the Romanian guy instead of the British? Is there a law enforced by the EU to do so? And people forget that cheap labor creates lower prices on the market. Are you willing to pay more even double the price for a commodity just because it was made by non-immigrants? Not to mention, that most immigrants aren't staying for long term. They go do the work, generate GDP and after a few years they go back to friends and family. Very few have the intentions to stay. Is it the EUs fault that British stores and businesses buy the goods from low cost EU countries? If you would have a grocery store, would you buy and sell food that was produced in Britain, but comes with a much higher cost, or would you get it from somewhere else cheaper and get it without the costs of shipping from country to the other because of the free trade? The EU helps everyone, but it's not their fault if businesses use these to their advantage. Hate the player and not the game, as they say.
- threeseed 10y ago
  I always think that bringing up the price of goods argument is not always the best approach when talking about immigrant labour. The fact is that in most Western countries (a) the workforce is ageing rapidly, (b) birth rates are low and dropping and (c) young people simply don't want cheap, low skilled jobs. So people just need to understand that without immigrant labour people aren't going to be able to rely on the quality of the life in the future. More specifically their pension, social security and decent hospitals.
  - MrLeftHand 10y ago
    You're right, but this is one part of the equitation. The cheap labor will give you a lower price at the end. If it wouldn't then you wouldn't see the 'made in China' text on literally everything. There was a massive debate about immigrants picking British strawberries. And a lot of the people were going crazy why the farmers don't employ British workers and that EU can go and fuck itself. It's fine and all, but they forget a lot of things. It's not the EU who told the farmer to get cheap immigrant labor. The farmer saves lots of money because of the cheap labor. This keeps the price down of the strawberries when you go buy a pack in a store. The work is seasonal, so it's not a permanent job and keeps the people occupied only for a couple of weeks. Some people get a fit when they see a small pack of British strawberries for 2 pounds. Imagine how enraged they would be to have the same amount for 4. These people, who always blame someone else then their own people (for instance why aren't you blaming the British farmer, business, whatever) would be the first ones crying why are the things more expensive now?! The whole economy is like nature, you take out one small part and everything changes. In brexit I see the typical 'The True Scotsman Fallacy'. or should we call it the 'True British Fallacy' now? We are great and everybody is crap and it's always someone else's fault not ours.
eyko 10y ago
- How about UK businesses which DO NOT export and have to compete with low cost european countries instead? They will still need to compete against lower cost products being imported as it's highly unlikely that those goods will be heavily taxed once UK is out of the EU (and the EEA for that matter). - How about UK employees which also have to compete with low cost labor from low cost european countries? If the UK still intends to export to the EU (which accounts for a big chunk of the UK economy), they will still have to compete with low cost labour, but with the added cost of tariffs since they also want out of the EEA.

eulji 10y ago

Uh and how other global economies compete ? So you want to protect these employees by "artificial" regulations ? Judging by your surname your ancestors were also fleeing from one of those low cost european countries.

rlpb 10y ago

The UK is a net importer from the EU[1]. [1] https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/OTS.aspx https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatisti...

marcospri 10y ago

Not sure there are many businesses that compete with "low cost" european countries but not with non-european low cost ones

muse5000 10y ago

getting out is not going to change anything that you mentioned, its like Boris trying to underline that British Steel was EU's fault... I mean what?... Its clearly the case were production has a cut back globally and the need of steel is not there anymore plus China overproducing... how's that EU? For the UK employees that have to compete with low cost labor... I don't think that's the case mate, its an open market, if you are good at what you are doing you are going to get valued. Lets see what you and Boris are going to say to all those people working in Universities that are going to shut down as their main source of income are EU students.

jklepatch 10y ago
Yes if you are very skilled you increase your chance to find a job, but this simplistic reasoning does not apply to every industry. In some cases you can be extremely skilled professionally and still be jobless if you have to compete with an equally competent (or less..) employee in a country where labor is way cheaper. The competition becomes especially unfair in this case. About the example of universities, I dont advocate closing borders. I believe in self determination and industry/country to country bilateral agreements. It might be more difficult to put in place but it reflects people best interest and it is democratic. If UK universities believe its in their best interest to allow more foreign students, then they should lobby for this. There will be winnders and losers thats for sure. Not everyone would be better off. But I believe that the overall effect would be positive. Lastly, please consider the many countries in the world who are succesful without relying on major trade agreements. Instead they have negotiated many bilateral trade agreements with other countries. These reflect their best interest, for each industry.

richmarr 10y ago

> How about UK businesses which DO NOT export... ...or import ...or use goods and services reliant on imports. > ... and have to compete How do you propose avoiding having to compete? Isolationism is a short-term solution. Edit: ...a short-term solution AT BEST

MrLeftHand 10y ago

Sorry, but is it the EUs fault that UK businesses tend to hire cheaper European labor? Does the EU tell you that you have to hire the Romanian guy instead of the British? Is there a law enforced by the EU to do so? And people forget that cheap labor creates lower prices on the market. Are you willing to pay more even double the price for a commodity just because it was made by non-immigrants? Not to mention, that most immigrants aren't staying for long term. They go do the work, generate GDP and after a few years they go back to friends and family. Very few have the intentions to stay. Is it the EUs fault that British stores and businesses buy the goods from low cost EU countries? If you would have a grocery store, would you buy and sell food that was produced in Britain, but comes with a much higher cost, or would you get it from somewhere else cheaper and get it without the costs of shipping from country to the other because of the free trade? The EU helps everyone, but it's not their fault if businesses use these to their advantage. Hate the player and not the game, as they say.

threeseed 10y ago
I always think that bringing up the price of goods argument is not always the best approach when talking about immigrant labour. The fact is that in most Western countries (a) the workforce is ageing rapidly, (b) birth rates are low and dropping and (c) young people simply don't want cheap, low skilled jobs. So people just need to understand that without immigrant labour people aren't going to be able to rely on the quality of the life in the future. More specifically their pension, social security and decent hospitals.
- MrLeftHand 10y ago
  You're right, but this is one part of the equitation. The cheap labor will give you a lower price at the end. If it wouldn't then you wouldn't see the 'made in China' text on literally everything. There was a massive debate about immigrants picking British strawberries. And a lot of the people were going crazy why the farmers don't employ British workers and that EU can go and fuck itself. It's fine and all, but they forget a lot of things. It's not the EU who told the farmer to get cheap immigrant labor. The farmer saves lots of money because of the cheap labor. This keeps the price down of the strawberries when you go buy a pack in a store. The work is seasonal, so it's not a permanent job and keeps the people occupied only for a couple of weeks. Some people get a fit when they see a small pack of British strawberries for 2 pounds. Imagine how enraged they would be to have the same amount for 4. These people, who always blame someone else then their own people (for instance why aren't you blaming the British farmer, business, whatever) would be the first ones crying why are the things more expensive now?! The whole economy is like nature, you take out one small part and everything changes. In brexit I see the typical 'The True Scotsman Fallacy'. or should we call it the 'True British Fallacy' now? We are great and everybody is crap and it's always someone else's fault not ours.

eyko 10y ago

- How about UK businesses which DO NOT export and have to compete with low cost european countries instead? They will still need to compete against lower cost products being imported as it's highly unlikely that those goods will be heavily taxed once UK is out of the EU (and the EEA for that matter). - How about UK employees which also have to compete with low cost labor from low cost european countries? If the UK still intends to export to the EU (which accounts for a big chunk of the UK economy), they will still have to compete with low cost labour, but with the added cost of tariffs since they also want out of the EEA.