5 ms·

My barrier to entry with a lot of DIY hardware projects was an incorrect assumption that it was difficult/expensive to get PCBs made. Looking into this, I found

by CJKinni 10y ago

My barrier to entry with a lot of DIY hardware projects was an incorrect assumption that it was difficult/expensive to get PCBs made. Looking into this, I found the blog of the guy running this project and he had some experience with various cheap PCB vendors, with stencils going as low as $18. [1] [1]: https://conorpp.com/2016/03/13/my-experience-with-dirtypcbscom/ https://conorpp.com/2016/03/13/my-experience-with-dirtypcbsc...

tomkinstinch 10y ago
In addition to the vendors you mention via that link, OSH Park[1] is great option for hobbyists (or very small-volume production). This is the same source listed in OP. It's a board pooling group that puts many small-run orders on the same panel to economize on setup costs. OSH Park uses high-quality US manufacturers to produce the boards (with tight tolerances, silkscreen, soldermask, gold-flashed pads, etc.) I believe they used to use Amitron outside Chicago, but I'm not sure if that's still the case. I've had probably 300 boards made by them, and they've all been great. In open source designs you can usually spot OSH Park boards by the distinctive purple color. Seeed Studio and the other Asian budget board houses are a decent economy option if you can get away with looser tolerances. OSH Park is nice for compact designs because the gold-flashed pads are better for surface-mount parts, since they aren't raised like traditional solder-painted pads. Unlike most quickturn PCB fabs they don't bury you with options; the standard options give you everything you need (ENIG, double mask+silk screen, either 2/4 layer, etc.). The OSH Park ordering wizard is a case study in how PCB orders should be done (upload and a couple clicks, with a graphical preview), and for the quality the price can't be beat. Because orders are pooled and then separated before shipping out, it is slower. You can use the free and open KiCad[2] software (again, what was used in OP; tutorials[3,4]) to do schematic capture and board layout, have it generate some gerber and drill files, and then order the boards for a few bucks from OSH Park. KiCad won't do simulations like Altium or some of the other commercial packages, but if you just want to take a schematic and make a board it works fine. Definitely learn its hotkeys. 1. https://oshpark.com/ https://oshpark.com/ 2. http://kicad-pcb.org/ http://kicad-pcb.org/ 3. http://teholabs.com/knowledge/kicad.html http://teholabs.com/knowledge/kicad.html 4. http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/kicad/ http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/kicad/
- zaroth 10y ago
  This must be awesome for training and university settings, to have such low cost options for learning the craft. Is it used much by startups / is it bringing down the barrier to entry that much?
  - mplewis 10y ago
    Yes. Small startups that don't care too much about turnaround time love OSH Park and Seeed Studio. My last company did care about turn time but also wanted affordable boards. They used PCB-Pool: http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppus/index.html http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppus/index.html
    - lsllc 10y ago
      OSH Park has an "expedited" fee with which you can get a ~5 day turnaround.
- fho 10y ago
  One thing I noticed is that some of my friends that have been designing PCBs have been dismissing options like OSHpark for a long time. Apparently they still believe that it's not possible to create good quality PCBs with that pricetag. Even after I showed them some of my PCBs they still insist that I got lucky and tolerances will be too high to be useful ...
- lsllc 10y ago
  +1 for OSH Park.
lil1729 10y ago
A lot of amateur radio HF range projects use what is known as the "manhattan style" construction where, a copper clad board is used as a ground plane, so to speak and then tiny round pads are glued to it, which act as islands. The pads can be made using paper punch of appropriate grade. I have used cheap punch used for cutting paper and have made pads in the past. The parts are then soldered directly to these island pads. Not sure if these can be applied to digital circuits, perhaps not very easily, since a lot of components are SMD these days, at least in the high speed digital domain.
- makomk 10y ago
  Modern SMD microcontrollers tend to have pretty fine pin pitches, often in the 1mm ballpark. You really want a proper PCB for those.
  - toomanybeersies 10y ago
    I recently soldered a board using a MCU with a 0.5 mm pitch.
    - lil1729 10y ago
      yep, I have done that too, with a third hand and a lens, as I have a bad eye sight.
  - lil1729 10y ago
    http://www.piclist.com/techref/pcb/manhattan.htm http://www.piclist.com/techref/pcb/manhattan.htm
unwind 10y ago
Yeah, PCB manufacturing really has opened up and become highly available. On that note, the title neglects the price of the board, which will add to the total cost for building this. From OSH Park it's $4.60 for three copies of the board, bringing the total per token to $4.50 + $1.53 = ~$6. That's a very interesting microcontroller by the way, I always think it's mildly amusing with 8-bit CPU cores sitting on a hardware USB peripheral. Looks like a nice chip, plenty of I/O, 5 V-capable, built-in 3.3 V regulator and USB firmware, and stuff. Thanks OP for sharing this!
StavrosK 10y ago
I've gotten great results with dirtyPCBs for $14, I've made about five batches with them so far.
jabl 10y ago
My father made a simple PCB himself a few years ago. He designed the PCB with http://www.geda-project.org/ http://www.geda-project.org/ (I think?), printed out a negative of the PCB on a (printer-safe!) transparent page, and used an old overhead projector as the light source for the etching. That being said, I suspect that methodology doesn't scale down to such small features, multiple layers etc. that you see in the link you posted, so at some point you have to give up on DIY etching.
legulere 10y ago
At least in the fablab in my university you can make PCBs yourself (cheap, you have the result instantaneously). You can also get them done locally (expensive, relatively fast) or in China (cheap, takes long to ship).
- janekm 10y ago
  If it's using a milling machine to cut the PCBs it's neither cheap (breaks a few end-mills per project), instant (have to redo the board several times to fix milling issues) not very useful (1 layer, huge tolerances)... It's quite a shame the "fablabs" have chosen to go with that approach (for philosophical reasons mostly, I guess, as the milling machine could also be used for other purposes) rather than a decent simple etching process. Sorry for the rant, I've seen a "fab academy" student struggle with the process quite unreasonably during the last few weeks...
toomanybeersies 10y ago
Stencils aren't really needed, they're only really useful when using a reflow oven, and even then, I honestly think it's easier to hand solder for a single board than to pick and place and reflow.
- lsllc 10y ago
  You can get a T962A reflow oven for a few hundred bucks, even has mods: http://www.instructables.com/id/T962A-SMD-Reflow-Oven-FixHack/ http://www.instructables.com/id/T962A-SMD-Reflow-Oven-FixHac... I have the T962A and it works really well with the mods. I generally reflow batches of 12 boards at a time (on custom manufacturing jigs). Much easier than hand-soldering and the results are near-perfect.
jdietrich 10y ago
Two-layer boards are now absurdly cheap, even in small quantities. The boards available from DirtyPCBs or Elecrow are perfectly satisfactory for most hobby projects. Four-layer boards with ENIG and fine pitch are now well within the realms of affordability, particularly small boards from OSHPark. The most economical stencils are avaliable from OSH Stencils. They offer mylar stencils for $0.64/square inch, with a minimum charge of $5. Mylar stencils are perfectly satisfactory for prototyping or even short production runs. https://www.oshstencils.com/ https://www.oshstencils.com/
- lsllc 10y ago
  The Kapton stencils from OSH Stencils are pretty good; today they just announced stainless steel stencils (obviously haven't tried them yet).

by CJKinni 10y ago

tomkinstinch 10y ago

In addition to the vendors you mention via that link, OSH Park[1] is great option for hobbyists (or very small-volume production). This is the same source listed in OP. It's a board pooling group that puts many small-run orders on the same panel to economize on setup costs. OSH Park uses high-quality US manufacturers to produce the boards (with tight tolerances, silkscreen, soldermask, gold-flashed pads, etc.) I believe they used to use Amitron outside Chicago, but I'm not sure if that's still the case. I've had probably 300 boards made by them, and they've all been great. In open source designs you can usually spot OSH Park boards by the distinctive purple color. Seeed Studio and the other Asian budget board houses are a decent economy option if you can get away with looser tolerances. OSH Park is nice for compact designs because the gold-flashed pads are better for surface-mount parts, since they aren't raised like traditional solder-painted pads. Unlike most quickturn PCB fabs they don't bury you with options; the standard options give you everything you need (ENIG, double mask+silk screen, either 2/4 layer, etc.). The OSH Park ordering wizard is a case study in how PCB orders should be done (upload and a couple clicks, with a graphical preview), and for the quality the price can't be beat. Because orders are pooled and then separated before shipping out, it is slower. You can use the free and open KiCad[2] software (again, what was used in OP; tutorials[3,4]) to do schematic capture and board layout, have it generate some gerber and drill files, and then order the boards for a few bucks from OSH Park. KiCad won't do simulations like Altium or some of the other commercial packages, but if you just want to take a schematic and make a board it works fine. Definitely learn its hotkeys. 1. https://oshpark.com/ https://oshpark.com/ 2. http://kicad-pcb.org/ http://kicad-pcb.org/ 3. http://teholabs.com/knowledge/kicad.html http://teholabs.com/knowledge/kicad.html 4. http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/kicad/ http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/kicad/

zaroth 10y ago
This must be awesome for training and university settings, to have such low cost options for learning the craft. Is it used much by startups / is it bringing down the barrier to entry that much?
- mplewis 10y ago
  Yes. Small startups that don't care too much about turnaround time love OSH Park and Seeed Studio. My last company did care about turn time but also wanted affordable boards. They used PCB-Pool: http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppus/index.html http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppus/index.html
  - lsllc 10y ago
    OSH Park has an "expedited" fee with which you can get a ~5 day turnaround.
fho 10y ago
One thing I noticed is that some of my friends that have been designing PCBs have been dismissing options like OSHpark for a long time. Apparently they still believe that it's not possible to create good quality PCBs with that pricetag. Even after I showed them some of my PCBs they still insist that I got lucky and tolerances will be too high to be useful ...
lsllc 10y ago
+1 for OSH Park.

lil1729 10y ago

A lot of amateur radio HF range projects use what is known as the "manhattan style" construction where, a copper clad board is used as a ground plane, so to speak and then tiny round pads are glued to it, which act as islands. The pads can be made using paper punch of appropriate grade. I have used cheap punch used for cutting paper and have made pads in the past. The parts are then soldered directly to these island pads. Not sure if these can be applied to digital circuits, perhaps not very easily, since a lot of components are SMD these days, at least in the high speed digital domain.

makomk 10y ago
Modern SMD microcontrollers tend to have pretty fine pin pitches, often in the 1mm ballpark. You really want a proper PCB for those.
- toomanybeersies 10y ago
  I recently soldered a board using a MCU with a 0.5 mm pitch.
  - lil1729 10y ago
    yep, I have done that too, with a third hand and a lens, as I have a bad eye sight.
- lil1729 10y ago
  http://www.piclist.com/techref/pcb/manhattan.htm http://www.piclist.com/techref/pcb/manhattan.htm

unwind 10y ago

Yeah, PCB manufacturing really has opened up and become highly available. On that note, the title neglects the price of the board, which will add to the total cost for building this. From OSH Park it's $4.60 for three copies of the board, bringing the total per token to $4.50 + $1.53 = ~$6. That's a very interesting microcontroller by the way, I always think it's mildly amusing with 8-bit CPU cores sitting on a hardware USB peripheral. Looks like a nice chip, plenty of I/O, 5 V-capable, built-in 3.3 V regulator and USB firmware, and stuff. Thanks OP for sharing this!

StavrosK 10y ago

I've gotten great results with dirtyPCBs for $14, I've made about five batches with them so far.

jabl 10y ago

My father made a simple PCB himself a few years ago. He designed the PCB with http://www.geda-project.org/ http://www.geda-project.org/ (I think?), printed out a negative of the PCB on a (printer-safe!) transparent page, and used an old overhead projector as the light source for the etching. That being said, I suspect that methodology doesn't scale down to such small features, multiple layers etc. that you see in the link you posted, so at some point you have to give up on DIY etching.

legulere 10y ago

At least in the fablab in my university you can make PCBs yourself (cheap, you have the result instantaneously). You can also get them done locally (expensive, relatively fast) or in China (cheap, takes long to ship).

janekm 10y ago
If it's using a milling machine to cut the PCBs it's neither cheap (breaks a few end-mills per project), instant (have to redo the board several times to fix milling issues) not very useful (1 layer, huge tolerances)... It's quite a shame the "fablabs" have chosen to go with that approach (for philosophical reasons mostly, I guess, as the milling machine could also be used for other purposes) rather than a decent simple etching process. Sorry for the rant, I've seen a "fab academy" student struggle with the process quite unreasonably during the last few weeks...

toomanybeersies 10y ago

Stencils aren't really needed, they're only really useful when using a reflow oven, and even then, I honestly think it's easier to hand solder for a single board than to pick and place and reflow.

lsllc 10y ago
You can get a T962A reflow oven for a few hundred bucks, even has mods: http://www.instructables.com/id/T962A-SMD-Reflow-Oven-FixHack/ http://www.instructables.com/id/T962A-SMD-Reflow-Oven-FixHac... I have the T962A and it works really well with the mods. I generally reflow batches of 12 boards at a time (on custom manufacturing jigs). Much easier than hand-soldering and the results are near-perfect.

jdietrich 10y ago

Two-layer boards are now absurdly cheap, even in small quantities. The boards available from DirtyPCBs or Elecrow are perfectly satisfactory for most hobby projects. Four-layer boards with ENIG and fine pitch are now well within the realms of affordability, particularly small boards from OSHPark. The most economical stencils are avaliable from OSH Stencils. They offer mylar stencils for $0.64/square inch, with a minimum charge of $5. Mylar stencils are perfectly satisfactory for prototyping or even short production runs. https://www.oshstencils.com/ https://www.oshstencils.com/

lsllc 10y ago
The Kapton stencils from OSH Stencils are pretty good; today they just announced stainless steel stencils (obviously haven't tried them yet).