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Thank you for your thoughful response, in particular reflection on the strong tendency to encourage men to "whiteknight". There is an interesting convergence b
by mafribe 10y ago
Thank you for your thoughful response, in particular reflection on the strong tendency to encourage men to "whiteknight".
There is an interesting convergence between feminists and conservatives, in that both seek to demonise and curtail male sexuality as much as possible. They do it for different reasons though.
Social conservatives believe sexuality should be channeled into nuclear families because stable monogamous nuclear families are best for society and also best for the individuals involved. Without conventional families they belive فتنة (Fitna) will rule.
Feminists OTOH do so for altogether different reasons, indeed they loath the stable monogamous nuclear families.
For reasons that are beyond what can be easily discussed in a HN post, feminists have won this battle for now, and use social conservatives as enforcers, something the latter don't realise because they fundamentally don't understand that they are being taken for a ride. In the long run social conservatives will win though, because they have way more children than feminists (male and female). Feminist attitudes will simply die out.
- pm90 10y agoI don't think the last part is true though. A critical part of US society is the freedom of information, which allows the kids of conservative parents to learn about other viewpoints. Anecdotally, I have many friends who were raised in rather conservative households who are now very liberal... of course, its also true that kids in conservative households do mostly turn out to be conservative, because parents. However, it is this small group that will always keep the flame of liberalism alive.
- mafribe 10y agoYou are right of course, I was drastically simplifying my points for the sake of the discussion. It is quite normal to stage a partial rebellion against one's upbringing, it's part of the normal process of maturing into an adult. However, that tends to fizzle out when one's own children arrive. To be sure, there will always be those who do not follow the parental path. My contention is that they will remain a minority. Especially in the future when their lack of offspring will be extremely apparent. Feminists will be looked at with bemusement like the shakers today.
- tripzilch 10y agoWhat future do you imagine where lack of offspring will be extremely apparent? If the world population growth doesn't stop one way, it will stop the hard way. You can only fit so many humans on this planet.
- mafribe 10y agoLack of offspring is already extremely apparent among highly educated women. My university is full of them. Most have no children or at best one. Feminism is sometimes seen as an evolved reaction to overpopulation.
- tripzilch 10y agoInteresting ideas but I have some big doubts about the last statement. > In the long run social conservatives will win though, because they have way more children than feminists (male and female). Feminist attitudes will simply die out. You know the film Idiocracy? It's a hilariously satirical scifi story based on the premise of "intelligent people reproduce way less than stupid people, therefore intelligence will die out". Which is a very funny idea, but it's just not how selection works. Your example is doubtful for slightly different reasons. Historically, the selection pressure on pieces of information (Feminist attitudes) has always been strongly tied to the reproductive ability of the medium it is embedded in (people). However, that is changing, information is getting loose, first as artifacts, writing, but today it even has forms of agency (computing). The world population will stagnate, which also factors into it. Spreading your genes used to be, but really is no longer a guarantee to also spread your ideas. Or maybe look at it the other way, if things work the way you describe, where did Feminism come from in the first place? How could it ever gain mainstream traction in an environment filled with reproducing conservatives? It's a bit absurd. Also, if the process you describe only affects "the long run", what's stopping Feminism from popping up over and over again in the short term?
- mafribe 10y agoI know Idiocracy, and I like Mike Judge, but I don't really believe that (much of) intelligence is heritable, at least in the way the film suggests. I base my prediction that feminist will die out not so much on abstract theories of information transfer and evolution, but on what I observe in the world. where did Feminism come from This is an interesting question, and I could comment at length on this subject, but maybe HN is not the right venue for this subject matter, especially as what I'd say goes against the ruling SJW orthodoxy.