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Tell HN: We built a solar-charging wireless backup camera for your car
- lstodd 10y agoHow are the data paths between camera and OBD module and the module and the phone app secured?
- mrshoe 10y agoWe are using industry standard encryption algorithms for all of our wireless traffic. We are also consulting with external security experts, in addition to the expertise we have in-house. All of our over-the-air firmware updates are cryptographically signed.
- mrshoe 10y agoIt's such an amazing feeling to put your blood and sweat into a product for months and finally be able to share it with the world. It's great to take our startup out of stealth mode today! I couldn't imagine a better group of people to do it with, either.
- dsl 10y agoHow long has your team been working on this project? It seems like it is 2-3 years too late to market.
- dang 10y ago> How long has your team been working on this project? It seems like it is 2-3 years too late to market. That reads like a dismissive swipe. Please guard against that here, especially when responding to new work. It may be the default human tendency, but it's destructive of thoughtful conversation. Not all new work is good, but most things that do turn out to be good start small, and all invite a litany of obvious objections while embryonic. A better way to bring this up would be to provide more detail about your comment's context (example: products X, Y, Z came out 2 years ago) and then expressing your point as a sincere question (example: how is your product different from X, Y, Z and isn't there a risk that the market is already mature).
- equasar 10y agoDoes anyone know what's the battery life when is not being charged?
- mrshoe 10y agoWith literally zero solar charging and under normal usage, the battery should last over a month. Most people get at least some solar charging, though! If nothing else, at least while they are driving, parked at the grocery store, etc.
- dang 10y agoThis looks great, and we particularly like that you showed up to tell the story of what you've been working on. I hope a good discussion will ensure. But we changed "Show HN" to "Tell HN" in the title, since the web page says "preorder" and Show HN is supposed to be for when your thing is actually available. I hope you'll come back and do a Show HN when you reach that stage. There's nothing wrong with the post otherwise, since this is clearly a real project and I suspect the community would be interested in learning about it.
- mrshoe 10y agoThanks dang! Totally understandable and I am happy to post again when we start shipping them out.
- cordite 10y agoSo, this is really cool, but I park underground both at work and home. I have doubts morning and evening sun is enough to charge this. Also, what if I have something else already in the ODB port? It looks like I have to get a Y splitter or something, but having dangling cords under the steering wheel doesn't seem like a good idea.
- jbob2000 10y agoVery cool! I'm interested in your thoughts about car manufacturers including them on cars now. In Canada, all new car models must have a backup camera, for example. (Kinda funny how you feature brand new Porsches and Audis in your product demos; both these cars have backup cameras!) I still think there's a market for the product for older/used/classic vehicles, but wondering what your perspective is on this.
- sp332 10y agohttp://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/06/a-team-of-ex-apple-engineers-wants-to-improve-your-driving-experience/ http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/06/a-team-of-ex-apple-engin... There's a long design cycle, and it only appears in some makes and models; it can take 10 to 20 years to appear across the production line. The other challenge is the technology in new cars is designed to be stagnant, so it stays the same throughout the lifetime of the car, which is over 17 years now.
- mrshoe 10y agoExcellent question. It takes decades for new features to fan out to the majority of new cars. After that it then takes decades more for those features to reach saturation of all cars on the road, because only 7% of the car population turns over each year. The bottom line is it's generally 40 years from the point when features like seat belts, air bags, traction control, and backup cameras are first introduced and when they reach 95% saturation. Throughout this adoption process, demand for these features among those whose cars don't have them increases significantly!
- jbob2000 10y agoThanks for the very informative reply!
- Riseed 10y agoExcellent answer. Feature propagation & saturation is also a reason to offer/develop a version that doesn't require an OBD port. Your customer base consists almost exclusively of those who are both willing to spend $499 on an accessory and who don't already have a reverse cam. Many potential customers won't have an OBD port in their car because OBD-I wasn't around until the '90s. Muscle car enthusiasts and parents (happy to spend $499 to prevent an accident) passing down an older car come to mind. It would be great to see a second generation version that works without OBD.
- tzm 10y agoGreat idea. Why use an OBD port? I suspect this will compete with other OBD-dependent solutions in the future.
- bargl 10y agoSeconded, I use automatic which means to use this I have to pick one or the other.
- JshWright 10y agoIt needs to know when the car is in reverse.
- mmanfrin 10y agoConsuming the ODB port for autolaunching an app seems like a really pointless addition. It weirds me out that I'm installing an always-on (when driving) computer in my car when it provides no major benefit other than knowing when my car is in reverse -- and since I've got to set up my phone anyways, opening an app is not much more work to save from having an entire separate dongle needed.
- JshWright 10y agoI assume it runs in low power mode most of the time, and is woken up by an RF signal from the dongle. It's _possible_ you could accomplish that via BLE from the phone, but maybe not. Obviously the camera can't be on all the time, as I'm sure they're cutting the power budget pretty close as it is, given the size of the solar panel.
- mrshoe 10y agoThe OBD adapter does serve a very important role in the system in that it has a power source and can wake the camera frame when necessary (before you ever launch the app!). All of our vision algorithms also run on the OBD adapter, which is a key aspect of the power model.
- 10y ago
- bkmintie 10y agoWould love to see what the app experience is like outside of the camera view (push notifications to launch, settings, etc.)
- mrshoe 10y agoAnd I'd love to show it to you! :) The video screen is definitely the main focus of the app, for obvious reasons. When the video stops, we also show an app launcher screen that's optimized for use in the car (large touch targets :) ), which you can configure to include a few of your favorite music or nav apps.
- JshWright 10y agoLooks like a really cool project. Is there a non-solar charging method, just in case? Have you done much testing in less than ideal solar locations?
- cybrjoe 10y agoQuestion: what's the user experience like every time you get in the car? Do you need to launch the app? I imagine that's what the OBD portion is for, but I didn't think you could automatically launch apps from iOS. Does the Android app offer a different experience?
- mrshoe 10y agoWe've really tried to make this experience as smooth as possible. The product comes with a superb magnetic dash mount for your phone. Frequently our app will show up on your lock screen in iOS, so you can just slide up to launch into the video view. We will of course leverage whatever tools both platforms provide to make the launching experience as seamless as it can be! We can also take cues from accelerometers, the OBD port, and other sensors, as you mention.
- lstodd 10y agoAha! The OBD port connection isn't even necessary since it's a trip to the phone UI anyway. So why OBD?
- cybrjoe 10y agoI'm guessing the "cues" mentioned are triggering the app to show up on the lock screen. Without it you'd be forced to sift through your apps every time you back up. I don't think there's any other way to know for sure you're in a car and will be backing up soon. Ideally you'd want your backup camera on before the accelerometer knows you're backing up.
- atonse 10y agoHave you considered hooking this up to CarPlay so it actually shows up in my built-in car screen?
- gcb0 10y agougging into the odb port is dubious. I will surelly never get close to this device. a usb or power socket version would look much more professional.
- khedoros 10y agoThey're also using information from OBD for car power state, backup state, and speed (to turn the camera off when you're going 10MPH or more). For the way they decided to implement it, I think they've got a slick device. How they secure the data streams and communication with the dongle would be my big questions.
- Khao 10y agoThis page has by far the worst scrolling interaction I've ever experienced. First up : no scroll bar so there is literally no visual cue that I need to scroll. Scrolling "activates" the next portion of content. Somewhere around the middle part : I can scroll and see the scrollbar, but WAIT! Another portion of the page starts hiding the scroll and hijacking the scrolling to show something. Uggggh again? Scroll some more : Scroll bar appears once more! I am free to scroll to the bottom of the page. Nothing makes me hate a webpage more than some shenanigans like this that breaks what a webpage should be.
- fhood 10y agoWasn't there an article on HN recently that said something along the lines of "just because Apple does it doesn't mean you should"?
- giancarlostoro 10y agoI agree. If I remember suddenly that there is information at the top or bottom of the page that I want to access now I can't just click on the scrollbar to redirect me, but I have to wait an extra good five to ten seconds just to get back to it.
- jkot 10y agoI can only see top menu, page is blank. I have malware filters.
- khedoros 10y agoWhich filters? I have ghostery, ublock origin, and a corporate firewall, all of which usually cause me some trouble, but I didn't have any issues with this site.
- tim_nuwin 10y agoholy cow, every time there's a Show HN, there's always someone who shits on the web-page "hijacking" the scrolling. It's annoying commentary because you're looking at it through a very narrow lens that 99% of the people don't care about. For non-technical people, it's more intuitive having the screen-focused on the main content.
- oh_sigh 10y agoAre there any anti-theft features for this? Can someone just take the rearvision off my license plate and go home with it?
- headconnect 10y agoAny chance there will be a European license plate frame size available? Seems like a small change to reach a wider market. Possibly more relevant as well, have you ever tried parking in one of the old cities in the continent? :)
- mrshoe 10y agoWe are initially shipping only in the US, but hopefully total world domination will follow eventually. :)
- gricardo99 10y agoAt that price point I'd be worried it's an easily accessible target for theft. Is there some way to pair it with your phone or car adapter such that it's useless without those?
- mrshoe 10y agoThe camera frame is indeed paired with the car adapter at the factory, which is a theft deterrent. They will not function without each other. The RearVision also comes with a security tool that must be used to attach and remove the camera frame.
- swamp40 10y agoI am curious how much blacking out the solar cells reduces the incoming power. It certainly looks cooler that way, though.
- mrshoe 10y agoThe solar window is actually transparent. Our PD team is second to none! They were able to make the whole solar assembly look uniformly black while not sacrificing solar efficiency.
- macinjosh 10y agoThis is crazy expensive for what you get. Most newer cars have this feature already and unless you have trouble turning your head I don't think it is worth $500 adding to a low-end new or used car.
- llamataboot 10y agoInteresting product, but I just don't see how the inconvenience of opening up your phone, the concerns about using the ODB port, and the price point are going to make this a starter. You can get an easy to install backup camera + screen for half that, and no fumbling with a phone needed. If you already have a screen in your stereo, you can get a camera for less than $100.
- mrshoe 10y agoWe designed our own magnetic phone mount, which comes with the product. Once you start mounting your phone in your car (especially with our mount, which is amazing), you won't want a separate screen for your camera. :) The advantages of mounting your smartphone, with the cutting edge hardware and active software ecosystem that come along with it, are truly huge. When I rent a car now I am incredibly frustrated without the mount. Luckily ours has a magnetic pluggable backend, so I can pull it off my adhesive mount and attach the vent clip for use in other cars.
- vonklaus 10y agonevere EVER take away a users ability to scroll.
- ww520 10y agoAgree. The site is kind of hard to scroll. The PgDown key doesn't work at the second page. Pictures after full screen pictures with no delimitation is a real turn off.
- BHSPitMonkey 10y agoIt's even worse with this site than most like it, since it randomly switches between "scroll slightly to trigger a transition animation" and "scroll normally to go down the page", and you can never predict which it's going to be until you try and wait a few seconds for something to happen.
- popey456963 10y agoSo infuriating, see [0] [0] http://blog.arronhunt.com/post/66973746030/stop-scrolljacking http://blog.arronhunt.com/post/66973746030/stop-scrolljackin...
- vonklaus 10y agohahaha, funnily enough these guys are all ex-apple and I immeadiately assumed they were going for the Apple page feel. I didn't like the apple mac redesign but it is a lot more intuitive than this page, as after most of the animation you are dropped back into a normal page scroll and it is reasonably intuitive when you are scrolling vs. animating. I found it annoying but at least I could grep what was happeneing
- yitchelle 10y agoWhat cars are you supporting at the moment, and what other cars on your road map?
- mrshoe 10y agoWe do require an OBD port, which is present on all cars 1996 and newer. Other than that, it should work on basically all cars, assuming you don't have e.g. an existing backup camera that mechanically blocks the installation.
- peterkshultz 10y agoShould a fender bender occur, I'd imagine insurance wouldn't cover getting this replaced. A native backup camera is seemingly more cost-effective.
- walrus01 10y ago$499!?!?! For $130 I can buy two really good quality 1080p dashcams and two 16GB microSDHC cards (I know, not the intended function of this...) and mount one facing forward and one to the rear.
- Johnny555 10y agoA "good quality" dashcam for $65? Which one? You still have to run wires to power your dashcam and display video where the driver can see it -- that's what $500 buys, the need to not have to add wires to your car.
- walrus01 10y agohttps://www.amazon.com/Black-Box-G1W-C-Capacitor-Dashboard/dp/B00MIO2KRC https://www.amazon.com/Black-Box-G1W-C-Capacitor-Dashboard/d... search youtube for "G1W-C" for sample videos.
- koolba 10y agoWhy does it matter that it's solar powered if there's already a ready source of electricity (i.e. your car battery)? Seems like it's only solar powered to be facilitate being an after market add-on you can click onto the car. Otherwise it'd require wiring.
- Johnny555 10y agoDidn't you just answer your own question? Many people don't want to have to run wires and tap into their car's electrical system, screwing this license plate frame on and plugging in the OBD dongle means anyone can install it in a few minutes.
- slantyyz 10y agoI'm more curious how that built in LiOn battery would stay charged while parked outside for a full work day on a super cold day in winter, when decent sunlight is scarce. Has it been tested in a place where temperatures can dip to -20C / -40C with wind chill?
- Johnny555 10y agoThe camera stays in low power mode (polling with BLE?) until woken up by the OBD controller to tell it that the car is in reverse. It doesn't need much power to stay charged.
- rcthompson 10y agoI don't think it's a question of energy use, it's a question of whether the battery can hold a charge under those conditions.
- suprgeek 10y agoGreat Product - Congrats on thinking thru and designing for a "Wire-Free" experience, with Solar batteries and the clever hack of the OBD port connector to offload some functions (wake-up on reversing etc). That said - it seems it is 2-3 years too late to be launching this. 1)By 1 May 2018, all new US Cars will have back-up cameras by law [1] 2) Most Cars sold since 2011/12 seem to have integrated back-up cameras 3) $500 for a Car accessory (!) that by definition will be fitted on a lower end car older model (since high end cars had this for a while) aka Low sales. 4)OBD port contention Pivot Idea - Dash cam recorder (go in front plate) with AI for alerting based on User set rules (in addition to Dash Cam recording) [1]: https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/nhtsa-announces-final-rule-requiring-rear-visibility-technology https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/nhtsa-announces... Edit: Why in the name of funk did you design your website to take away manual scrollability? If I want to quickly skim it I have to endure the pointless transitions - I get that you want to enforce a certain flow - but let me cleanly escape out of it as well,
- grimmdude 10y agoI was excited to see something like this (my mom has been needing one), but when I saw the price I thought the same thing. Why not get a professionally installed one that's more convenient and harder for someone to steal for the same price?
- PantaloonFlames 10y agoYep, with the coming regulatory requirement on manufacturers to equip new cars sold in the USA with builtin backup cameras, the potential addressable market in the USA will shrink steadily as time goes on, and as newer cars replace older ones. Even so there are (guessing) ~100MM cars on US roads that do not have backup cameras and might want one. And also commercial trucks - where a camera is sorely needed. And of course there are international markets. China buys more cars than the US, these days.
- brandon272 10y agoThe rear visibility in my car isn't great. Saw the homepage and thought, "Sold!" within about 10 seconds. Clicked "Pre-Order" to be disappointed by the price point. Was expecting something in the $249 or $299 price range. $500 ($650 CAD) is way too high for me. Disappointing.
- tlrobinson 10y agoFirst impressions: 1. $499 is a lot. A lot of people who would be willing to pay that probably already have backup cameras built into their cars. 2. I'd rather have a fixed screen that's 100% always there and ready. Sometimes I just want to hop in my car and not have to worry about pulling my phone out. The magnetic mount looks nice though. 3. ODB port may already be consumed by another gadget (e.x. Automatic). Could you use a low-power accelerometer/gyro to detect backups instead?
- stevewilhelm 10y agoI might pay for something like this if it was: 1. designed for the front license plate 2. recorded the last n minutes of driving to memory 3. could trigger a copy of the last n minutes to a SD memory card or to my phone.
- astrange 10y agoThe dashcam market is well developed, with the only real issue being you have to run a USB cable in your car to power it. I don't think this would add enough value over the ones you stick to your windshield. For instance, I have this one; it's very small and not likely to get stolen: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UUS52YG?psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UUS52YG?psc=1 Hasn't gotten me anything yet but I hope to get Youtube karma someday. On the other hand, this product does add value, it just happens to be evil: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11934455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11934455 A backup camera would be great, since my car doesn't have one and there are kids living next door, but my OBD port is already in use by another tech gimmick…
- wmichelin 10y agoThat's very expensive
- jebernier 10y ago$400! No thanks
- jebernier 10y ago$400!! No thanks
- dsfyu404ed 10y agoOP dun goofed. This is redundant for cars but would be marketable on pretty much everything bigger than a car. IMO you should target RVs, fleet truck/vans and people towing trailers with this. As others have mentioned, too expensive and too late for cars. Pickups and vans have longer service lives and IIRC some are exempt from the camera thing. People who DD small cars tend to suck at backing big stuff (like company trucks). Using it as a rear dashcam could help reduce liability (e.g. "my driver didn't back into your fence and I have video to prove it" Putting this on a trailer would make it easier to back into tight spaces with precision. Since it's wireless and a self contained unit it could be marketed for use on boat trailers as well A fleet that deploys these could easily swap them from vehicle to vehicle with near zero cost. RVs suck to back, camera makes that less so. There's also a lot of older RVs out there since they depreciate so much they tend to get passed through lots of owners and stick around a long time. A $500 camera can be swapped from RV to RV and is an easy upsell when someone buys a used RV that they're likely planning on sinking some $ into You also can't see behind you very well with an RV. If you're towing a trailer with ATVs, a small boat or something you can't see if it's back there unless you get out and check. The list goes on...
- qmr 10y agoJesus fuck stop fucking with my scrolling. Please fix your broken website, and fire your "designer".