8 ms·

Sony agrees to pay millions to gamers to settle PS3 Linux debacle

117 points by bpierre 10y ago

Kristine1975 10y ago
It would have been better if Sony had to put the Linux support back in. What good are $55 (after jumping through lots of hoops) if you want to run Linux on your PS3?
- deelowe 10y ago
  Better for you, not Sony. This was a calculated decision.
- wmf 10y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if Sony couldn't fix their hypervisor. They may have lost the source code, or perhaps the person who wrote it was transferred to the pachinko division.
  - rkho 10y ago
    Pretty sure that's Konami you're thinking of :)
- ewzimm 10y ago
  I would buy Sony products again if they would just allow that functionality again. I still have my PS3 which I used as my primary desktop for a while, and the data is still there, but inaccessible, so it should be sufficient proof. The money is kind of nice, but by now it should be clear that it poses no threat to Sony to allow people to run their own software, especially with the hypervisor intact. I'm not aware of any new vulnerabilities that came up in the last six years because of OtherOS, and people have even managed to get Linux running unofficially on PS4s without causing any problems to Sony's business. Imagine if Apple did something like this and decided to disable Bootcamp on all Macs and make your Windows and Linux installs inaccessible if anyone updated your computer. This is probably the most anti-consumer and anti-developer move I can think of in computing history (although the rootkit Sony CDs were pretty bad too). Sony had a whole developer community working for them for free, making software, supporting their system, and evangelizing for them before they decided to shut them down and even pursue them with legal threats for doing what Sony asked them to do, experiment and create. Even if they somehow can't fix the PS3, just adding some official support for OtherOS on PS4 which uses conventional hardware would send a huge message that they actually care about their fans and would help to counter Microsoft's move opening the Xbox to Windows apps for expanded utility.
mtgx 10y ago
Sony should adopt Linux and Vulkan already (maybe for PS4 Neo?). It needs to be able to tout some compatibility with other platforms, in the same way Microsoft is doing it now with Xbox/Win10/DX12. Sony could tout Android/Linux/Windows 7+ compatibility with Vulkan.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Vulkan doesn't do anything new that PS APIs haven't been already doing since the PS3. They already do the same that Microsoft does with their APIs for PS3, PS4 and to smaller extent PSP and Vita.
codys 10y ago
> To get the $55, a gamer "must attest under oath to their purchase of the product and installation of Linux, provide proof of their purchase or serial number and PlayStation Network Sign-in ID, and submit some proof of their use of the Other OS functionality." To get the $9, PS3 owners must submit a claim that, at the time they bought their console, they "knew about the Other OS, relied upon the Other OS functionality, and intended to use the Other OS functionality." I seriously doubt very much money will be payed out to users if this settlement is approved. I'm sure the lawyers would be happy with it though: > The deal also provides up to $2.25 million in attorneys' fees for the lawyers who brought suit. That payout is equal to around ~40909 users who are able to prove they used the Other OS functionality. I'm doubtful that many exist.
- btilly 10y ago
  Yup. How many people still have proof of things they did a decade ago? Heck, most won't even have the PlayStation.
  - MrMember 10y ago
    No kidding. I sold mine shortly after and because of the removal of OtherOS. I certainly don't have the serial number or proof that I used OtherOS (who possibly could?).
  - sigjuice 10y ago
    My PS3 had Yellow Dog Linux, but I hardly ever booted into it. Also, my fat PS3 died a few years ago (yellow light of death), and I don't even have it any more to look up serial numbers etc.
    - fapjacks 10y ago
      I'm sitting here giddy that I can claim my measly $55 dollars because I am a hoarder.
- pervycreeper 10y ago
  >submit some proof of their use of the Other OS functionality What proof would users even reasonably be able to furnish?
clarry 10y ago
Software developers beware: removing support for a niche feature in your product can get you into big trouble.
- gshulegaard 10y ago
  I'm sorry, but I think this comment severely misrepresents what happened and the precedent it helped establish. First, the firmware update didn't remove support for a feature, it explicitly blocked certain user space software. It forced consumers to use Sony's PS OS rather than an alternative like Linux. Second, it helps establish precedence that hardware vendors can have control/part ownership of hardware after you purchase it. Gone are the days where the computer you purchase pre-assembled is your own. Now vendors can apparently control what you decide to do with hardware that you purchase. Sony isn't alone in this, Microsoft has been moving towards this for a long time, and Apple is probably the worst offender, but they are joined by most hardware vendors at this point. It's anti-consumer behavior. It probably shouldn't even be legal, but yet corporations can get away with it, so they continue to do it since it aligns with their best interests (barriers to competition).
  - slavik81 10y ago
    How does it imply any sort of loss of ownership? They removed Linux support in an update. The update was not forced. You got the choice to install it or not. If you wanted to decline the update and keep using Linux, you could. All your existing games would continue working, too, but you couldn't play games released after the update (which require the newer firmware). Nor could you play online, as having all updates is a requirement of connectng to their online service. I have a 60GB PS3, but I agree with the grandparent that a legal obligation to maintain support indefinitely would set a bad precedent.
    - gshulegaard 10y ago
      It's placing an artificial barrier on user software choices at the firmware level. There was no reason Linux couldn't run on a PS3, except Sony said so. Second, it wasn't optional for people, like me, who bought a PS3 after the update. Since I bought a console with the restriction, I don't remember exactly whether people could refuse the update. But your points, about not being able to play future games or playing online are also arbitrary restrictions which, while not outright preventing you from refusing the update, are designed to arbitrarily handicap you to the point that not updating is more of a hindrance than not.
theandrewbailey 10y ago
Sony is the best example that I can think of for manufacturers whose products have fewer features over time. Remember that PS3s also had PS2 compatibility?
- LanceH 10y ago
  I chose the ps3 because it had usb controllers. I thought that would make the controllers forward compatible to ps4. I'm done with consoles.
  - baby 10y ago
    forward compatible with a console released 7 years apart? It shows how different the clientele of Nintendo is, since they change the controllers at every new iteration.
    - zorked 10y ago
      Nintendo does backwards compatibility a lot better than Sony. Consoles have been compatible with the previous generation since the Wii (which would play Gamecube games) and handhelds have always compatible with the previous generation, from the Game Boy Color all the way to New 3DS.
      - swiley 10y ago
        The SNES was actually supposed to play NES games as well, but that ended up getting dropped.
    - LanceH 10y ago
      For a controller, sure. The current controller has all the buttons the old controller has. They are both USB/bluetooth. Most games need a one or two sticks and the standard buttons. There is no reason they couldn't develop a system to cover a grand total of two controller specs, both of which they created and which probably have a 90+% overlap. I'll stick to my PC, where every controller works.
nfoz 10y ago
I specifally followed the PS3 market carefully, and made sure to buy a used PS3 that had the capability to install Linux. Installing it was a fun side-project, although I didn't use it much. Then I bought a game I really wanted to play, but it required the firmware update that would destroy the Linux. I've been upset, and was seriously considering buying another used PS3 just to be able to play my game on that. So, I'm glad this finally won. I was disenfranchised by their obnoxious actions. Guiltily, I admit that the $55 I get back will probably go towards a used PS3 so I can play the game alongside my Linux-enabled PS3 :)

117 points by bpierre 10y ago

Kristine1975 10y ago

It would have been better if Sony had to put the Linux support back in. What good are $55 (after jumping through lots of hoops) if you want to run Linux on your PS3?

deelowe 10y ago
Better for you, not Sony. This was a calculated decision.
wmf 10y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if Sony couldn't fix their hypervisor. They may have lost the source code, or perhaps the person who wrote it was transferred to the pachinko division.
- rkho 10y ago
  Pretty sure that's Konami you're thinking of :)
ewzimm 10y ago
I would buy Sony products again if they would just allow that functionality again. I still have my PS3 which I used as my primary desktop for a while, and the data is still there, but inaccessible, so it should be sufficient proof. The money is kind of nice, but by now it should be clear that it poses no threat to Sony to allow people to run their own software, especially with the hypervisor intact. I'm not aware of any new vulnerabilities that came up in the last six years because of OtherOS, and people have even managed to get Linux running unofficially on PS4s without causing any problems to Sony's business. Imagine if Apple did something like this and decided to disable Bootcamp on all Macs and make your Windows and Linux installs inaccessible if anyone updated your computer. This is probably the most anti-consumer and anti-developer move I can think of in computing history (although the rootkit Sony CDs were pretty bad too). Sony had a whole developer community working for them for free, making software, supporting their system, and evangelizing for them before they decided to shut them down and even pursue them with legal threats for doing what Sony asked them to do, experiment and create. Even if they somehow can't fix the PS3, just adding some official support for OtherOS on PS4 which uses conventional hardware would send a huge message that they actually care about their fans and would help to counter Microsoft's move opening the Xbox to Windows apps for expanded utility.

mtgx 10y ago

Sony should adopt Linux and Vulkan already (maybe for PS4 Neo?). It needs to be able to tout some compatibility with other platforms, in the same way Microsoft is doing it now with Xbox/Win10/DX12. Sony could tout Android/Linux/Windows 7+ compatibility with Vulkan.

pjmlp 10y ago
Vulkan doesn't do anything new that PS APIs haven't been already doing since the PS3. They already do the same that Microsoft does with their APIs for PS3, PS4 and to smaller extent PSP and Vita.

codys 10y ago

> To get the $55, a gamer "must attest under oath to their purchase of the product and installation of Linux, provide proof of their purchase or serial number and PlayStation Network Sign-in ID, and submit some proof of their use of the Other OS functionality." To get the $9, PS3 owners must submit a claim that, at the time they bought their console, they "knew about the Other OS, relied upon the Other OS functionality, and intended to use the Other OS functionality." I seriously doubt very much money will be payed out to users if this settlement is approved. I'm sure the lawyers would be happy with it though: > The deal also provides up to $2.25 million in attorneys' fees for the lawyers who brought suit. That payout is equal to around ~40909 users who are able to prove they used the Other OS functionality. I'm doubtful that many exist.

btilly 10y ago
Yup. How many people still have proof of things they did a decade ago? Heck, most won't even have the PlayStation.
- MrMember 10y ago
  No kidding. I sold mine shortly after and because of the removal of OtherOS. I certainly don't have the serial number or proof that I used OtherOS (who possibly could?).
- sigjuice 10y ago
  My PS3 had Yellow Dog Linux, but I hardly ever booted into it. Also, my fat PS3 died a few years ago (yellow light of death), and I don't even have it any more to look up serial numbers etc.
  - fapjacks 10y ago
    I'm sitting here giddy that I can claim my measly $55 dollars because I am a hoarder.
pervycreeper 10y ago
>submit some proof of their use of the Other OS functionality What proof would users even reasonably be able to furnish?

clarry 10y ago

Software developers beware: removing support for a niche feature in your product can get you into big trouble.

gshulegaard 10y ago
I'm sorry, but I think this comment severely misrepresents what happened and the precedent it helped establish. First, the firmware update didn't remove support for a feature, it explicitly blocked certain user space software. It forced consumers to use Sony's PS OS rather than an alternative like Linux. Second, it helps establish precedence that hardware vendors can have control/part ownership of hardware after you purchase it. Gone are the days where the computer you purchase pre-assembled is your own. Now vendors can apparently control what you decide to do with hardware that you purchase. Sony isn't alone in this, Microsoft has been moving towards this for a long time, and Apple is probably the worst offender, but they are joined by most hardware vendors at this point. It's anti-consumer behavior. It probably shouldn't even be legal, but yet corporations can get away with it, so they continue to do it since it aligns with their best interests (barriers to competition).
- slavik81 10y ago
  How does it imply any sort of loss of ownership? They removed Linux support in an update. The update was not forced. You got the choice to install it or not. If you wanted to decline the update and keep using Linux, you could. All your existing games would continue working, too, but you couldn't play games released after the update (which require the newer firmware). Nor could you play online, as having all updates is a requirement of connectng to their online service. I have a 60GB PS3, but I agree with the grandparent that a legal obligation to maintain support indefinitely would set a bad precedent.
  - gshulegaard 10y ago
    It's placing an artificial barrier on user software choices at the firmware level. There was no reason Linux couldn't run on a PS3, except Sony said so. Second, it wasn't optional for people, like me, who bought a PS3 after the update. Since I bought a console with the restriction, I don't remember exactly whether people could refuse the update. But your points, about not being able to play future games or playing online are also arbitrary restrictions which, while not outright preventing you from refusing the update, are designed to arbitrarily handicap you to the point that not updating is more of a hindrance than not.

theandrewbailey 10y ago

Sony is the best example that I can think of for manufacturers whose products have fewer features over time. Remember that PS3s also had PS2 compatibility?

LanceH 10y ago
I chose the ps3 because it had usb controllers. I thought that would make the controllers forward compatible to ps4. I'm done with consoles.
- baby 10y ago
  forward compatible with a console released 7 years apart? It shows how different the clientele of Nintendo is, since they change the controllers at every new iteration.
  - zorked 10y ago
    Nintendo does backwards compatibility a lot better than Sony. Consoles have been compatible with the previous generation since the Wii (which would play Gamecube games) and handhelds have always compatible with the previous generation, from the Game Boy Color all the way to New 3DS.
    - swiley 10y ago
      The SNES was actually supposed to play NES games as well, but that ended up getting dropped.
  - LanceH 10y ago
    For a controller, sure. The current controller has all the buttons the old controller has. They are both USB/bluetooth. Most games need a one or two sticks and the standard buttons. There is no reason they couldn't develop a system to cover a grand total of two controller specs, both of which they created and which probably have a 90+% overlap. I'll stick to my PC, where every controller works.

nfoz 10y ago

I specifally followed the PS3 market carefully, and made sure to buy a used PS3 that had the capability to install Linux. Installing it was a fun side-project, although I didn't use it much. Then I bought a game I really wanted to play, but it required the firmware update that would destroy the Linux. I've been upset, and was seriously considering buying another used PS3 just to be able to play my game on that. So, I'm glad this finally won. I was disenfranchised by their obnoxious actions. Guiltily, I admit that the $55 I get back will probably go towards a used PS3 so I can play the game alongside my Linux-enabled PS3 :)