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Wow this is messed up. This guy is clearly a predator and it's pretty shocking that he was able to operate in this way for so long. As much as women can be marg

by epberry 10y ago

Wow this is messed up. This guy is clearly a predator and it's pretty shocking that he was able to operate in this way for so long. As much as women can be marginalized and harassed at tech companies I can easily see how the problem could be much worse with organizations like the Tor Project or Wikileaks that don't necessarily have professional management. > These are causes, not just jobs or consulting gigs. They are symbols for fighting injustice, and crusading for those at risk of exploitation. Their reputations are fraught and fragile. To attack a person in them is to attack the movement. They are also male-dominated organizations, in the male-dominated realm of hacking, where very few of the men are willing to accept that their hacker heroes, team bosses, and conference buddies might be doing really, really fucked up things to women. Above was the passage that struck me the most and seems like the most contributing factor for Jake's inexplicably long tenure. When you are constantly under attack by the powers that be it might seem rational to brush aside accusations against one of your most prominent members and plow ahead. Obviously this was a disastrous decision, both for the women involved and the organization. EDIT: a word.

auvrw 10y ago
yea, it's strangely counterintuitive: the politics of tor are non-mainstream, but in a potentially positive way. yet, that left the door open for seriously negative sociopolitical issues. is that the tl;dr of the parent post? anyway, i don't care what "league" this guy is in. wouldn't want to be around behavior like that. > what about the reality where Hitler cured cancer, Morty? it's best not to think about it.
musha68k 10y ago
I don't know if it is clear as I know neither of the persons involved (do you?). What seems ever clearer to me though is that many of the organizations/movements we look up to employ and attract certain kinds of people amongst which you'd probably find quite a few psychopaths as well (maybe even more so with "causes"). Do we need to fight fire with fire? If so, how can we keep our "beneficial" predators (?!) in check (?!?!) insofar as to steer them towards "just doing their job" by concentrating their pernicious powers on the psychopathic bodies (people, organizations, skynet..) we need to be fighting? If not, let's all level-up and fend them off - people involved with "causes" especially - hierarchies and secrets are the breeding ground for psychopaths as per Hintjens "Power Pyramids vs. Living Systems": http://content.psychopathcode.com/chapter2.html http://content.psychopathcode.com/chapter2.html http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths
aomurphy 10y ago
Being part of a small dedicated group fighting for a cause absolutely leaves you open to this, even when the ideals you are fighting for are against that very goal. You can see it all the time in far left groups, there are often similar sorts of deals going on, like this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/09/socialist-workers-party-rape-kangaroo-court https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/09/socialist-wo... Anecdotally, I've met/heard of lots of creepy guys (almost always guys) at these sort of highly motivated ideological groups. There's a strong in-group/out-group thing going on. I assume far right groups can be similar, but I've never been involved in one. Also it's less interesting, since they generally don't jump up and down to be called feminist.

by epberry 10y ago

auvrw 10y ago

yea, it's strangely counterintuitive: the politics of tor are non-mainstream, but in a potentially positive way. yet, that left the door open for seriously negative sociopolitical issues. is that the tl;dr of the parent post? anyway, i don't care what "league" this guy is in. wouldn't want to be around behavior like that. > what about the reality where Hitler cured cancer, Morty? it's best not to think about it.

musha68k 10y ago

I don't know if it is clear as I know neither of the persons involved (do you?). What seems ever clearer to me though is that many of the organizations/movements we look up to employ and attract certain kinds of people amongst which you'd probably find quite a few psychopaths as well (maybe even more so with "causes"). Do we need to fight fire with fire? If so, how can we keep our "beneficial" predators (?!) in check (?!?!) insofar as to steer them towards "just doing their job" by concentrating their pernicious powers on the psychopathic bodies (people, organizations, skynet..) we need to be fighting? If not, let's all level-up and fend them off - people involved with "causes" especially - hierarchies and secrets are the breeding ground for psychopaths as per Hintjens "Power Pyramids vs. Living Systems": http://content.psychopathcode.com/chapter2.html http://content.psychopathcode.com/chapter2.html http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths

aomurphy 10y ago

Being part of a small dedicated group fighting for a cause absolutely leaves you open to this, even when the ideals you are fighting for are against that very goal. You can see it all the time in far left groups, there are often similar sorts of deals going on, like this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/09/socialist-workers-party-rape-kangaroo-court https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/09/socialist-wo... Anecdotally, I've met/heard of lots of creepy guys (almost always guys) at these sort of highly motivated ideological groups. There's a strong in-group/out-group thing going on. I assume far right groups can be similar, but I've never been involved in one. Also it's less interesting, since they generally don't jump up and down to be called feminist.