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> Fortunately companies like stripe.com The sad truth is that Stripe is behaving exactly like PayPal. What's worse is that Stripe's fraud protection is non-exi

by sovande 10y ago

> Fortunately companies like stripe.com The sad truth is that Stripe is behaving exactly like PayPal. What's worse is that Stripe's fraud protection is non-existing. In other words, Stripe is actually worse than PayPal, as you risk the same account freeze, closing etc, but in addition, you will be swamped down with fraudulent purchases and chargebacks.

simonswords82 10y ago
Ouch - that's a shame as I was hoping our next startup would use Stripe. I'd better do some more due diligence on them before we commit.
tarstarr 10y ago
(Disclaimer: I work at Stripe) Stripe does have a fraud protection product, which is enabled by default for every user. It centers around a machine learning system, that uses static signals (e.g. card issuing country) and time-dependent, dynamic signals (e.g. "how many different devices have tried to use this card in the last N hours?") to analyze every charge that hits our systems. Transactions that are deemed almost certainly fraudulent are automatically declined (but can be reviewed in the dashboard or via the API.) We're constantly working on product & performance improvements, but feel free to get in touch with me directly (tara@stripe.com) to ask questions or share feedback on our models (and fraud product in general).
- sovande 10y ago
  For posterity, yes you do have this "neural network" thing. It does not really work now AFAIK, but I do hope you will succeed as we definitely need a viable alternative to PayPal. Though I'm sceptical to this approach. In machine learning 101 we learned that there always exist a statistical method that would beat a neural network. In this case, a system that gathers actual relevant data for statistical scoring. You know hard data, like an up to date list of stolen credit card numbers, a history of chargeback per credit card etc. PayPal has this and of 1000 transactions, we have 1-2 fraudulent chargebacks. Compared to Strip this is the difference between heaven and hell. PayPal sucks, but at least they have a working fraud protection system. Nothing kills an online business faster than being swamped in fraud and chargebacks. I mean, good APIs are great and Stripe certainly has that, but a working fraud protecting system is what really matters to those of us who sell online.

by sovande 10y ago

simonswords82 10y ago

Ouch - that's a shame as I was hoping our next startup would use Stripe. I'd better do some more due diligence on them before we commit.

tarstarr 10y ago

(Disclaimer: I work at Stripe) Stripe does have a fraud protection product, which is enabled by default for every user. It centers around a machine learning system, that uses static signals (e.g. card issuing country) and time-dependent, dynamic signals (e.g. "how many different devices have tried to use this card in the last N hours?") to analyze every charge that hits our systems. Transactions that are deemed almost certainly fraudulent are automatically declined (but can be reviewed in the dashboard or via the API.) We're constantly working on product & performance improvements, but feel free to get in touch with me directly (tara@stripe.com) to ask questions or share feedback on our models (and fraud product in general).

sovande 10y ago
For posterity, yes you do have this "neural network" thing. It does not really work now AFAIK, but I do hope you will succeed as we definitely need a viable alternative to PayPal. Though I'm sceptical to this approach. In machine learning 101 we learned that there always exist a statistical method that would beat a neural network. In this case, a system that gathers actual relevant data for statistical scoring. You know hard data, like an up to date list of stolen credit card numbers, a history of chargeback per credit card etc. PayPal has this and of 1000 transactions, we have 1-2 fraudulent chargebacks. Compared to Strip this is the difference between heaven and hell. PayPal sucks, but at least they have a working fraud protection system. Nothing kills an online business faster than being swamped in fraud and chargebacks. I mean, good APIs are great and Stripe certainly has that, but a working fraud protecting system is what really matters to those of us who sell online.