5 ms·

I have two questions: 1. It is known that you read a lot. Do you plan to write a book? You have been a big inspiration for me and I would love to read a book f

I have two questions: 1. It is known that you read a lot. Do you plan to write a book? You have been a big inspiration for me and I would love to read a book from you. 2. What is your opinion about Self programming language (http://www.selflanguage.org http://www.selflanguage.org)? I've read „STEPS Toward The Reinvention of Programming“ pdf and this feels related, especially to with the Klein interpreter (http://kleinvm.sourceforge.net/ http://kleinvm.sourceforge.net/).

alankay1 10y ago
I liked Self. "Good OOP" is still waiting for a much better notion to replace the idea of a "Class"
- kgr 10y ago
  In FOAM (the Feature-Oriented Active Modeler) we replace classes with Models, which are just collections of Axioms. There are pre-built Axiom types for standard things like methods and properties, but also for things like imports, exports, traits, listeners, topics, templates, actions, inner-models/classes, etc. Axioms are themselves modeled, so you can create new types as required. In the end, you still end up with a class, but it's defined/built with an extensible composition of objects rather than by a more limited and static class definition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4LbUv5FsGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4LbUv5FsGQ
  - alankay1 10y ago
    Could you list something to read please?
    - kgr 10y ago
      https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki/How-FOAM-is-Different https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki/How-FOAM-is-Diff... https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki/KeyConcepts https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki/KeyConcepts http://foam-framework.github.io/foam/ http://foam-framework.github.io/foam/
      - alankay1 10y ago
        Worth comparing to Dan Ingalls' Lively Kernel https://www.lively-kernel.org/ https://www.lively-kernel.org/
- shkaboinka 10y ago
  Trygve Reenskaug (MVC inventer ) and Jim Coplien (Patterns/Hillside) developed the DCI paradigm as a way model code around the roles played by objects, rather than the concrete type (class) of each object. video: https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Reflection-OOP-Social https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Reflection-OOP-Social PDF: http://fulloo.info/Documents/RestoringFunctionAndFormToPatterns.pdf http://fulloo.info/Documents/RestoringFunctionAndFormToPatte... Website: http://fulloo.info/ http://fulloo.info/
  - shkaboinka 10y ago
    Alan, of you are aware of DCI, what is your response to it? It (or more specifically, Jim Coplien) claims to build on your vision of OOP, but also criticises "emergence" within the OO vision. (Personally, I think those problems are design issues apart from the OO model)
    - alankay1 10y ago
      We had a lot of fun with Trygve and we all learned a lot. I'm glad that they've been pushing at these issues.

alankay1 10y ago

I liked Self. "Good OOP" is still waiting for a much better notion to replace the idea of a "Class"

kgr 10y ago
In FOAM (the Feature-Oriented Active Modeler) we replace classes with Models, which are just collections of Axioms. There are pre-built Axiom types for standard things like methods and properties, but also for things like imports, exports, traits, listeners, topics, templates, actions, inner-models/classes, etc. Axioms are themselves modeled, so you can create new types as required. In the end, you still end up with a class, but it's defined/built with an extensible composition of objects rather than by a more limited and static class definition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4LbUv5FsGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4LbUv5FsGQ
- alankay1 10y ago
  Could you list something to read please?
  - kgr 10y ago
    https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki/How-FOAM-is-Different https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki/How-FOAM-is-Diff... https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki/KeyConcepts https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/wiki/KeyConcepts http://foam-framework.github.io/foam/ http://foam-framework.github.io/foam/
    - alankay1 10y ago
      Worth comparing to Dan Ingalls' Lively Kernel https://www.lively-kernel.org/ https://www.lively-kernel.org/
shkaboinka 10y ago
Trygve Reenskaug (MVC inventer ) and Jim Coplien (Patterns/Hillside) developed the DCI paradigm as a way model code around the roles played by objects, rather than the concrete type (class) of each object. video: https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Reflection-OOP-Social https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Reflection-OOP-Social PDF: http://fulloo.info/Documents/RestoringFunctionAndFormToPatterns.pdf http://fulloo.info/Documents/RestoringFunctionAndFormToPatte... Website: http://fulloo.info/ http://fulloo.info/
- shkaboinka 10y ago
  Alan, of you are aware of DCI, what is your response to it? It (or more specifically, Jim Coplien) claims to build on your vision of OOP, but also criticises "emergence" within the OO vision. (Personally, I think those problems are design issues apart from the OO model)
  - alankay1 10y ago
    We had a lot of fun with Trygve and we all learned a lot. I'm glad that they've been pushing at these issues.