13 ms·

"Dual N-Back" remains one of the best - it may be the only one that really works, unlike the bulk of other brain games that truly are scams. This one has exten

"Dual N-Back" remains one of the best - it may be the only one that really works, unlike the bulk of other brain games that truly are scams. This one has extensive research literature, and many free/ad-supported and cheap ones on android and iPhone app-stores. For a critical discussion of the research see: https://www.quora.com/How-does-dual-n-back-actually-increase-IQ https://www.quora.com/How-does-dual-n-back-actually-increase... It seems to be one of the best if you interested in this sort of thing. Claims include: improved working memory, improved executive functioning (great for ADHD/ADD), improved emotional control, self control and regulation, minor bump in IQ.

fizzbatter 10y ago
Can someone explain the downvote? Please don't downvote without explanation, i've got no idea if this persons claims are suspicious or false or etc. edit: Also, to this thread's OP; Doesn't your link's accepted answer claim n-back doesn't work? There is critical discussion there sure, but the consensus seems to be that it doesn't work. No?
- andriesm 10y ago
  Thx Fizzbatter, I indeed have no horse in this game (I'm not involved in the industry) - I've seen all of the mainstream "brain games" be thoroughly discredited. Dual N-Back is the only one that has at least SOME indication that it may have actual benefits, and it's not owned by one of these big brain game companies - so you can at least be more impartial and less subject to hype. You're right, I deliberately pointed everyone to a skeptical discussion of the research. Brain games as a whole ain't great, but of a bad bunch, this is the best, both in terms of research behind it, and in terms of cost (not some monthly subscription - often a free download) and impartiality.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Please don't downvote without explanation, Downvotes exist to improve the signal to noise ratio on HN: please do, generally, downvote without explanation. If something is productive and worth discussing, that's a sign that its not worth a downvote.
  - fizzbatter 10y ago
    Hmm, i guess i just don't understand the downvote though. Ie, clearly the person who downvoted knows something i don't. I'd like to understand that! It seems the person downvoting would rather me not view it (as it's not "constructive"), but i can view it.. and i am, yet how am i to know why the downvote was given? Is the author lying? Is it a spam link? Is the author wrong? etcetc
goblin89 10y ago
To anyone interested, Gwern also did some extensive research on Dual N-Back. Gwern’s DNB FAQ[0] offers some favorable opinion on DNB (in that it’s fascinating, though much larger gains can be achieved via many other means—meditation, environmental changes, etc.—before DNB can start to give any meaningful effect). Later meta-analysis[1] links post-DNB IQ gains to methodological problems in studies, with quite small remaining positive effect that may be linked to further biases. (Note that currently the FAQ is marked “unlikely” and the meta-analysis is marked “highly likely”.) The results are overall not so rosy and I personally am under the impression that DNB is of little utility, if not a waste of time or highly depending on luck[2]. Some of the links from https://www.quora.com/How-does-dual-n-back-actually-increase-IQ https://www.quora.com/How-does-dual-n-back-actually-increase..., however, lead to studies supporting DNB’s reputation as a great way to increase anyone’s IQ. I don’t know if newer studies avoid the biases of the ones Gwern looked at. [0] https://www.gwern.net/DNB%20meta-analysis https://www.gwern.net/DNB%20meta-analysis [1] https://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#n-back-in-general https://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#n-back-in-general [2] There are many options on how to do DNB exercise, including test presentation, features, training length, and so on.
- vbuwivbiu 10y ago
  nice analysis. My experience with DNB is that it definitely slightly improved my working memory after quite a lot of practice. One side-effect I noticed was an improved ability to track people's arguments and notice inconsistencies. However, in order to get to say 4-back took a lot of practice and it only worked when I was well-rested and nourished. When I was tired I simply could not improve. And DNB is ever so boring.
  - goblin89 10y ago
    Could you share how you practice DNB exercise? What software do you use, presentation options chosen (if any), anything else.
    - vbuwivbiu 10y ago
      i just used an iphone app (IQBoost I think..it's been a while) & did the sound+vision version with headphones, practicing in groups of 3 with a break inbetween until & got bored

fizzbatter 10y ago

Can someone explain the downvote? Please don't downvote without explanation, i've got no idea if this persons claims are suspicious or false or etc. edit: Also, to this thread's OP; Doesn't your link's accepted answer claim n-back doesn't work? There is critical discussion there sure, but the consensus seems to be that it doesn't work. No?

andriesm 10y ago
Thx Fizzbatter, I indeed have no horse in this game (I'm not involved in the industry) - I've seen all of the mainstream "brain games" be thoroughly discredited. Dual N-Back is the only one that has at least SOME indication that it may have actual benefits, and it's not owned by one of these big brain game companies - so you can at least be more impartial and less subject to hype. You're right, I deliberately pointed everyone to a skeptical discussion of the research. Brain games as a whole ain't great, but of a bad bunch, this is the best, both in terms of research behind it, and in terms of cost (not some monthly subscription - often a free download) and impartiality.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Please don't downvote without explanation, Downvotes exist to improve the signal to noise ratio on HN: please do, generally, downvote without explanation. If something is productive and worth discussing, that's a sign that its not worth a downvote.
- fizzbatter 10y ago
  Hmm, i guess i just don't understand the downvote though. Ie, clearly the person who downvoted knows something i don't. I'd like to understand that! It seems the person downvoting would rather me not view it (as it's not "constructive"), but i can view it.. and i am, yet how am i to know why the downvote was given? Is the author lying? Is it a spam link? Is the author wrong? etcetc

goblin89 10y ago

To anyone interested, Gwern also did some extensive research on Dual N-Back. Gwern’s DNB FAQ[0] offers some favorable opinion on DNB (in that it’s fascinating, though much larger gains can be achieved via many other means—meditation, environmental changes, etc.—before DNB can start to give any meaningful effect). Later meta-analysis[1] links post-DNB IQ gains to methodological problems in studies, with quite small remaining positive effect that may be linked to further biases. (Note that currently the FAQ is marked “unlikely” and the meta-analysis is marked “highly likely”.) The results are overall not so rosy and I personally am under the impression that DNB is of little utility, if not a waste of time or highly depending on luck[2]. Some of the links from https://www.quora.com/How-does-dual-n-back-actually-increase-IQ https://www.quora.com/How-does-dual-n-back-actually-increase..., however, lead to studies supporting DNB’s reputation as a great way to increase anyone’s IQ. I don’t know if newer studies avoid the biases of the ones Gwern looked at. [0] https://www.gwern.net/DNB%20meta-analysis https://www.gwern.net/DNB%20meta-analysis [1] https://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#n-back-in-general https://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#n-back-in-general [2] There are many options on how to do DNB exercise, including test presentation, features, training length, and so on.

vbuwivbiu 10y ago
nice analysis. My experience with DNB is that it definitely slightly improved my working memory after quite a lot of practice. One side-effect I noticed was an improved ability to track people's arguments and notice inconsistencies. However, in order to get to say 4-back took a lot of practice and it only worked when I was well-rested and nourished. When I was tired I simply could not improve. And DNB is ever so boring.
- goblin89 10y ago
  Could you share how you practice DNB exercise? What software do you use, presentation options chosen (if any), anything else.
  - vbuwivbiu 10y ago
    i just used an iphone app (IQBoost I think..it's been a while) & did the sound+vision version with headphones, practicing in groups of 3 with a break inbetween until & got bored