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This happened to me about 5 years ago on ebay when selling an iPhone. I was an eBay member since 1999, 100% positive feedback, occasional seller (about once a m

This happened to me about 5 years ago on ebay when selling an iPhone. I was an eBay member since 1999, 100% positive feedback, occasional seller (about once a month). I sold a perfectly fine iPhone, buyer with no feedback history complains to eBay he never received the phone despite tracking showing it was delivered. He also leaves me negative feedback (in broken English). eBay sided with the buyer immediately and attempted to withdraw the money out of my paypal account which I'd fortunately already withdrawn. They demanded for over a year that I pay them the money they claim I owe them or they'd destroy my credit. Fuck eBay, fuck PayPal, terrible companies that should have gone out of business long ago.

kirubakaran 10y ago
After a year they just let it be?
- jliptzin 10y ago
  Yes, but I am permanently banned from using PayPal now. Which is fine for me, but since then I've pushed literally millions of dollars of revenue through Stripe which would have more than accounted for their 'loss' had they not been so idiotic about the whole thing. I'm sure I'd have integrated with PayPal by default since Stripe was still nascent back then, but thanks to PayPal I was forced to use a different option for my business.
kingnothing 10y ago
When World of Warcraft was released, I had the same thing happen to me. It was a hot item and my local retailer happened to have it on the shelves, so I bought 10 extra copies and sold the CD keys on ebay for about 3x retail pricing. Almost half of the keys I sold were allegedly bought from Paypal customers who "had their accounts hacked", so ebay withdrew the money from my account and refunded it to the buyers leaving me without merchandise or money. Seriously: Fuck eBay.
- aaron695 10y ago
  This is very common for digital items. Because you need no postal address. It's a easy way to turn stolen credit cards to money (or stolen Paypal accounts) Someone tried the same arbitraging bitcoins on ebay and got burned. Not totally sure this is eBays fault. I'd guess the actually were bought with stolen assets.
- DrScump 10y ago
  Paypal/eBay give zero seller protection to anything not shipped with Delivery Confirmation (plus signature if > $250). (Even with confirmation, they will still try to rip you off if the buyer balks. But you have zero chance without Delivery Confirmation.)
- srtjstjsj 10y ago
  bought for 10, sold for 30, lost 12, profit 8. So, fuck eBay for only enabling you get 8 profit instead of 0?
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    Well, kingnohthing did nothing wrong and then got scammed, and lost plenty of legitimate arbitrage profit. Yes, eBay is lazy and doesn't check up who's it is siding with.
- chdir 10y ago
  > bought 10 extra copies and sold the CD keys on ebay for about 3x retail pricing > ebay withdrew the money from my account and refunded it to the buyers Wicked karma :) When Nexus 4 was launched, I ended up with multiple devices (automated parallel purchases). It gave a lot of joy to sell them at cost (on craigslist) rather than cancel my purchase or pocket the premium they could've fetched.
  - kingnothing 10y ago
    Karma? That's just good business sense. Buy low sell high.
corin_ 10y ago
I have no love for eBay or Paypal, but what should they do in these sorts of situation? If buyer claims they send the product and seller claims they didn't, is there any good way of handling the dispute that doesn't have the potential for screwing over whichever party is innocent? Of course, they could have decided in your favour based on better feedback history, but that would have solved the problem for you, not all problems like this.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  Wouldn't tracking the package be the final decision maker? If it was "taken off the porch", then the buyer should have opted for signature required.
  - qq66 10y ago
    The package could always contain a brick. That's why I take a video of myself opening anything expensive I buy from eBay.
    - windlep 10y ago
      Which proves you didn't already open it, swap in a brick, and reseal it to make it look unopened... how?
      - morganvachon 10y ago
        Yep, I think the only defense against someone criticizing an unboxing video is to sit near your front door on the expected delivery day, recording device in hand and finger on the button, and as soon as you see/hear the delivery driver pulling up, start recording and don't stop until the device is unboxed. The sheer absurdity of anyone actually doing that is what works in the favor of scammers on both sides (buyers and sellers).
        srtjstjsj 10y ago
        > The sheer absurdity of anyone actually doing that is what works in the favor of scammers on both sides (buyers and sellers). Request shipping to post office, open package in post office while filling with smartphone. If you don't want to pay for a trusted retailed, you have to put in some work yourself.
Shivetya 10y ago
It happens as a buyer, I buy expensive antique glass and have more than once had to fight with ebay to have the purchase refunded because it was not as advertised, or worse having a seller ship a piece that was previously broken and then turn around and try to claim it was the post office and defraud them. so I understand paypal's and ebay's stance 1. They are up against CC companies who will side with their customer 2. A market suspected of selling fraudulent goods fails quickly 3. Sellers enter the agreement knowing full well there is a risk of a bad buyer and they will lose in the dispute.
- massysett 10y ago
  Which is exactly why I don't sell on ebay. Scammers and non-paying bidders, and ebay does nothing about it.
hbosch 10y ago
I've always wondered: how much overhead is introduced by eBay proxying package deliveries? Or does there exist a "delivery escrow" type service that can be trusted and audited somehow? If not, does this type of service have value? One interesting niche that eBay is considered both great and terrible for is watch buying. There are often descriptions that note "the watch in the picture is the watch you receive!" -- which is hilarious -- and "no buyers with less than n feedback" etc. It's considered a minefield for myriad reasons, and it's kind of a necessary evil if you want affordable vintage pieces or the increasingly rare "barn find" type of watch. But there is not an insurer or delivery proxy that I know of. On Craigslist, a lot of this is mitigated via the local nature of it, e.g. I will only buy your watch if you meet me at a Rolex dealer and get it authenticated on the spot before hand off.

kirubakaran 10y ago

After a year they just let it be?

jliptzin 10y ago
Yes, but I am permanently banned from using PayPal now. Which is fine for me, but since then I've pushed literally millions of dollars of revenue through Stripe which would have more than accounted for their 'loss' had they not been so idiotic about the whole thing. I'm sure I'd have integrated with PayPal by default since Stripe was still nascent back then, but thanks to PayPal I was forced to use a different option for my business.

kingnothing 10y ago

When World of Warcraft was released, I had the same thing happen to me. It was a hot item and my local retailer happened to have it on the shelves, so I bought 10 extra copies and sold the CD keys on ebay for about 3x retail pricing. Almost half of the keys I sold were allegedly bought from Paypal customers who "had their accounts hacked", so ebay withdrew the money from my account and refunded it to the buyers leaving me without merchandise or money. Seriously: Fuck eBay.

aaron695 10y ago
This is very common for digital items. Because you need no postal address. It's a easy way to turn stolen credit cards to money (or stolen Paypal accounts) Someone tried the same arbitraging bitcoins on ebay and got burned. Not totally sure this is eBays fault. I'd guess the actually were bought with stolen assets.
DrScump 10y ago
Paypal/eBay give zero seller protection to anything not shipped with Delivery Confirmation (plus signature if > $250). (Even with confirmation, they will still try to rip you off if the buyer balks. But you have zero chance without Delivery Confirmation.)
srtjstjsj 10y ago
bought for 10, sold for 30, lost 12, profit 8. So, fuck eBay for only enabling you get 8 profit instead of 0?
- ptaipale 10y ago
  Well, kingnohthing did nothing wrong and then got scammed, and lost plenty of legitimate arbitrage profit. Yes, eBay is lazy and doesn't check up who's it is siding with.
chdir 10y ago
> bought 10 extra copies and sold the CD keys on ebay for about 3x retail pricing > ebay withdrew the money from my account and refunded it to the buyers Wicked karma :) When Nexus 4 was launched, I ended up with multiple devices (automated parallel purchases). It gave a lot of joy to sell them at cost (on craigslist) rather than cancel my purchase or pocket the premium they could've fetched.
- kingnothing 10y ago
  Karma? That's just good business sense. Buy low sell high.

corin_ 10y ago

I have no love for eBay or Paypal, but what should they do in these sorts of situation? If buyer claims they send the product and seller claims they didn't, is there any good way of handling the dispute that doesn't have the potential for screwing over whichever party is innocent? Of course, they could have decided in your favour based on better feedback history, but that would have solved the problem for you, not all problems like this.

CaptSpify 10y ago
Wouldn't tracking the package be the final decision maker? If it was "taken off the porch", then the buyer should have opted for signature required.
- qq66 10y ago
  The package could always contain a brick. That's why I take a video of myself opening anything expensive I buy from eBay.
  - windlep 10y ago
    Which proves you didn't already open it, swap in a brick, and reseal it to make it look unopened... how?
    - morganvachon 10y ago
      Yep, I think the only defense against someone criticizing an unboxing video is to sit near your front door on the expected delivery day, recording device in hand and finger on the button, and as soon as you see/hear the delivery driver pulling up, start recording and don't stop until the device is unboxed. The sheer absurdity of anyone actually doing that is what works in the favor of scammers on both sides (buyers and sellers).
      - srtjstjsj 10y ago
        > The sheer absurdity of anyone actually doing that is what works in the favor of scammers on both sides (buyers and sellers). Request shipping to post office, open package in post office while filling with smartphone. If you don't want to pay for a trusted retailed, you have to put in some work yourself.

Shivetya 10y ago

It happens as a buyer, I buy expensive antique glass and have more than once had to fight with ebay to have the purchase refunded because it was not as advertised, or worse having a seller ship a piece that was previously broken and then turn around and try to claim it was the post office and defraud them. so I understand paypal's and ebay's stance 1. They are up against CC companies who will side with their customer 2. A market suspected of selling fraudulent goods fails quickly 3. Sellers enter the agreement knowing full well there is a risk of a bad buyer and they will lose in the dispute.

massysett 10y ago
Which is exactly why I don't sell on ebay. Scammers and non-paying bidders, and ebay does nothing about it.

hbosch 10y ago

I've always wondered: how much overhead is introduced by eBay proxying package deliveries? Or does there exist a "delivery escrow" type service that can be trusted and audited somehow? If not, does this type of service have value? One interesting niche that eBay is considered both great and terrible for is watch buying. There are often descriptions that note "the watch in the picture is the watch you receive!" -- which is hilarious -- and "no buyers with less than n feedback" etc. It's considered a minefield for myriad reasons, and it's kind of a necessary evil if you want affordable vintage pieces or the increasingly rare "barn find" type of watch. But there is not an insurer or delivery proxy that I know of. On Craigslist, a lot of this is mitigated via the local nature of it, e.g. I will only buy your watch if you meet me at a Rolex dealer and get it authenticated on the spot before hand off.