4 ms·

Back when I looked at CloudFoundry (years ago now), it didn't work out because there was no middle ground deployment between a single PC and a full blown produc

by Veratyr 10y ago

Back when I looked at CloudFoundry (years ago now), it didn't work out because there was no middle ground deployment between a single PC and a full blown production deployment. You either ran it on one machine or you spun up what would have costed ~$1200 in servers at the time. It doesn't appear this has changed: http://docs.pivotal.io/pivotalcf/1-7/customizing/openstack.html http://docs.pivotal.io/pivotalcf/1-7/customizing/openstack.h... Even at a cheap provider like DigitalOcean, this is 16x10 + 6x160 = $1120/month in __overhead__, without even running any useful applications.

jacques_chester 10y ago
I can see your point, insofar at CF is biased to provide HA for all its foundational components. It's actually possible to consolidate it down to fewer machines if you want. But it requires BOSH knowledge and the willingness to surrender the HA guarantees. If you only need to deploy a handful of apps, it'd be easier to start with a hosted service and go from there. We have one in Pivotal Web Services[0], pricing is based on RAM usage. IBM have BlueMix, there are also service installations managed by CenturyLink, AnyNines and Swisscom. [0] https://run.pivotal.io/ https://run.pivotal.io/
- Veratyr 10y ago
  BOSH knowledge isn't easy to come by unfortunately and I don't think the problem is HA for the foundational components so much as there being so many foundational components. Look at a HA Kubernetes cluster. You've got kubelets and 2-3 masters and you're done. Look at CF and you need 22 servers total just to get started. It may be easier/cheaper to use a hosted service compared to setting up your own CloudFoundry cluster but it's still extremely expensive and doesn't compete with alternatives like hosted Kubernetes. Say I want 32GB total of apps with 8 CPUs for a few development environments. For CF I pay ~$1600, for Pivotal I pay ~$700, for self hosted Kubernetes I pay ~$400 (4x8GB DigitalOcean instances + 3x2GB for masters) and for managed Kubernetes I pay ~$205 (4x n1-standard-2 Google Compute Engine instances + free cluster management since under 6 nodes).
  - jacques_chester 10y ago
    I'm not sure it's apples to oranges, though. Out of the box Kubernetes provides some, but not all, of what Cloud Foundry provides. When you say "so many foundational components", you're right: CF is featuresome and opinionated. That's the whole idea. With Kubernetes you can absolutely assemble all the other parts yourself and wire them together to taste, but that will chew up some of your 32Gb. And our calculations should expand to include engineering time, which is, last time I checked, quite expensive. I'll definitely give Google due credit for competitive pricing though. For that price, and given their expertise, it'd be silly to self-host Kubernetes if you could use GCP.

by Veratyr 10y ago

jacques_chester 10y ago

I can see your point, insofar at CF is biased to provide HA for all its foundational components. It's actually possible to consolidate it down to fewer machines if you want. But it requires BOSH knowledge and the willingness to surrender the HA guarantees. If you only need to deploy a handful of apps, it'd be easier to start with a hosted service and go from there. We have one in Pivotal Web Services[0], pricing is based on RAM usage. IBM have BlueMix, there are also service installations managed by CenturyLink, AnyNines and Swisscom. [0] https://run.pivotal.io/ https://run.pivotal.io/

Veratyr 10y ago
BOSH knowledge isn't easy to come by unfortunately and I don't think the problem is HA for the foundational components so much as there being so many foundational components. Look at a HA Kubernetes cluster. You've got kubelets and 2-3 masters and you're done. Look at CF and you need 22 servers total just to get started. It may be easier/cheaper to use a hosted service compared to setting up your own CloudFoundry cluster but it's still extremely expensive and doesn't compete with alternatives like hosted Kubernetes. Say I want 32GB total of apps with 8 CPUs for a few development environments. For CF I pay ~$1600, for Pivotal I pay ~$700, for self hosted Kubernetes I pay ~$400 (4x8GB DigitalOcean instances + 3x2GB for masters) and for managed Kubernetes I pay ~$205 (4x n1-standard-2 Google Compute Engine instances + free cluster management since under 6 nodes).
- jacques_chester 10y ago
  I'm not sure it's apples to oranges, though. Out of the box Kubernetes provides some, but not all, of what Cloud Foundry provides. When you say "so many foundational components", you're right: CF is featuresome and opinionated. That's the whole idea. With Kubernetes you can absolutely assemble all the other parts yourself and wire them together to taste, but that will chew up some of your 32Gb. And our calculations should expand to include engineering time, which is, last time I checked, quite expensive. I'll definitely give Google due credit for competitive pricing though. For that price, and given their expertise, it'd be silly to self-host Kubernetes if you could use GCP.