5 ms·

+ massive bureaucracy How anyone can write a 4 page essay on the EU without mentioning the absurd bureaucracy and regulatory hell it has introduced to small bu

• chrisseaton 10y ago
  I have heard an explanation for these vegetable regulations is that all the member countries had their own rules anyway, so having a single EU rule was better than what there was previously, and the EU wasn't getting involved in vegetables where previously government wasn't. I have also heard that these standards only apply if you want to describe your vegetables as meeting the standard. If you don't then I have heard that they don't apply. I don't know if either of those are true or not, or if it's a meaningful excuse for anyone, though. You could argue the EU should have got involved and got everyone to agree to abolish the regulations, or you could think that a common way of describing vegetable standards is good.
  • fixermark 10y ago
    An analogy from the United States: after the September 11th attacks, one of the side-effects was standardization of the emergency responder radio codes at a national level. Previously, each jurisdiction had its own radio short-number codes; they worked in the jurisdiction just fine, and were incompatible cross-jurisdictions. This was generally a non-issue, until the friction from NYC first responders and Jersey first responders needing to inter-operate under a shared command structure revealed what a problem it was. There's a perhaps surprising number of things that are not done in a standardized way. Firefighting in general is still done in a very local fashion vis. best practices, equipment, etc... With the exception of the radio codes and the national / international standards for labeling shipping containers (necessary because if a firefighting team rolls up on an overturned tractor trailer engulfed in flames, they need to be able to tell quickly whether the trailer contained the sort of thing that pouring on water will douse or the sort of thing that pouring on water will cause spatter or (much worse), violent combustion / polymerization reactions.
    • chrisseaton 10y ago
      This is a real flip-flop problem. One day is it clearly obvious that you should let people self-organise and let good ideas float up without regulation. The next day it is clearly obvious that everyone should standardise.
• bryanlarsen 10y ago
  Pretty much every western country has similar standards for economically important agricultural produce. They just specify what you're buying if you buy Class 1 Cucumbers. If your cucumber is too curvy, you can't sell it as class 1, you have to sell it as class 3 or unclassified. That's all.
  • boznz 10y ago
    "that's All".. Because Europeans are too stupid to classify cucumbers on their own.
• germanier 10y ago
  The point of not including this is that every time it is mentioned people cherry-pick sentences from that regulation without context just as you do. What we see here is a regulation of cucumber labels not cucumbers itself. Your quotes are minimum standards for certain classes of cucumbers. It's still fine to sell other cucumbers but you just can't sell them as e.g. "Class 1". The regulation was abolished in 2009 because it was mentioned in every debate the public had about the EU. Guess what happened then? Almost every contract of cucumber merchants now contains a verbatim copy of that regulation. Merchants love that kind of standardization (and if not, they were free to ignore it by not using the defined labels). It makes it easier to transport produce and allow for better planning. If there is no central definition of quality classes everybody is creating their (likely slightly incompatible) ones. That's not less bureaucratic, it's more bureaucratic. Now every small business has to deal with dozens of different company-made regulations. Because we are on HN think of it as an RFC standard with the addition of being legally bound to it as soon as you declare conformity.
  • JoshTriplett 10y ago
    > Guess what happened then? Almost every contract of cucumber merchants now contains a verbatim copy of that regulation. > Merchants love that kind of standardization. Indeed; so much so that (as you've demonstrated) they can establish it themselves without needing government help to do so.
    • germanier 10y ago
      Please read the rest of the paragraph.
      • JoshTriplett 10y ago
        I did. Your post provided a specific example where merchants have standardized on a compatible standard despite the regulation no longer existing. What evidence do you have that merchants will standardize on incompatible sets of standards? Compatible standards benefit them.
• dsr_ 10y ago
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6481969.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6481969.stm discusses this and some other urban legends of British-EU compliance. Notably, the fruit and vegetable size/shape standards declare three categories for each item, and a producer can then advertise them as such and a seller can rely on the product being as advertised. "Extra" class conforms completely, "Class 1" mostly conforms, and "Class 2" is much looser.
• ams6110 10y ago
  I have this vague recollection that one of the reasons Denmark never joined the EMU and kept the kroner as their currency, had something to do with arcane regulations regarding cucumbers.
  • matt4077 10y ago
    Possibly, and it's a perfect example how the right-wing exploits the stupidity of people. - The cucumber regulation has nothing to do with the Euro – it (was) in effect in Denmark anyway. - It wasn't arcane.
• matt4077 10y ago
  Well may they can write 4-page essays because: - That regulation is no longer in effect - How was anyone negatively impacted by that regulation? It was actually demanded by the merchants.