4 ms·

Why should people move to Norway? Software developers don't really earn more than elsewhere in Europe while the cost of living is drastically higher.

adrianN 10y ago
It's a beautiful country full of happy people. It's #3 in the Where-to-be-born index [1] and ranks really high when you ask people about general satisfaction with their life [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index [2] http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/norway/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/norway/
- superswordfish 10y ago
  Programmers (and their children) don't really have to be born in a particular country to have good quality of life. That sort of ranking is more useful if you're poor. There is the "safety net" factor, but again, less important when you have skills that pay well.
  - jakub_h 10y ago
    If you can migrate, you don't have to be anything in particular. Otherwise, the place of birth is perhaps the strongest "macroscopic" predictor of your income.
    - superswordfish 10y ago
      Sure, but it's a bit odd, in the context of startup centers, to mention a place's ranking as one of the best places to be born -- most people in a position to relocate themselves to work at a startup are already fairly secure, and their children will be too.
  - uola 10y ago
    I agree it's not perfect but it is proxy for life style. The US or UK is great if your want to have a career, work for (or trying to sell to) a big company and be part of something bigger than yourself. Southern Europe is has sunshine, good food and social life. Germany or France is good if you want to work for a family business. The reason the Nordic countries top these list is because they have things like good working conditions, time for yourself, overall decent education systems, relativly low bureaucracy, universal healthcare etc. If you're in the US you can change jobs until you find one where they respect you, pay for extended vacations yourself, move to a good school district, pay lawyers to handle things for you and have private health insurance. What you can't buy is not having to care. That's what the Nordic countries are good at. You can focus your energy on the things that matter. You'll find a disproportionate amount Nordic people in almost all "digital subcultures", from e-sports to systems programming to startups. This is changing in some ways. The Nordic countries are becoming more like the rest of the world with health care systems that are hard to navigate, high private debt and valuing status over substance. But it's still a very good place to live.
  - vithlani 10y ago
    How do you figure the safety net bit -- especially with the medical industry? If you are a citizen of a country like Australia, the medical safety net is a life saver. No way will insurance pay for complete cancer treatments.
coldcode 10y ago
It's so dark in the winter, I guess it helps to work in a startup maybe you don't notice as much!
- fegu 10y ago
  This is the Norwegian secret of success. Food is fuel in Norway, we are not gourmets. We don't have much else to do than work and have sex during the winter.
  - wojcech 10y ago
    How much of each? Just interviewed with a Norwegian company
    - chillax 10y ago
      Depends on cracking this code: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUUyCrt7aEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUUyCrt7aEE And enjoying this http://www.orklafoods.no/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/selskaper/orkla-foods/orkla-foods-norge/ofn/aktuelt-og-media/bilder/grandiosa-med-kvalitetsstempel/20060095-1-nor-NO/Grandiosa-med-kvalitetsstempel_billboard.png http://www.orklafoods.no/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/sels...
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    The latter saving on heating costs.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    What's the typical work schedule in Norway like in the summer? Curious (from a US perspective) how the startup death march applies to seasonal variation. Are substantial vacations / outdoor enjoyment normal when the weather turns nicer?
    - chillax 10y ago
      In a normal company (as in not a startup) you'll work 8 to 16 year round and have at least 5 weeks of vacation, most of them usually to be spent during the common vacation time (Fellesferien) which is in july. If you're lucky you can expect at a good chunk of extra days days of in may when we celebrate different christian days and of course constitution day on the 17th. Oh, and at easter you'll have 3 days of. Most people (at least families) take the whole easter week of. Working in the government you'll often find a concept of summer time, where you work from 8 to 15 from around may to sometime in august. Those hours are to be worked extra during the rest of the year though.
freekh 10y ago
To get "cheap" (or as "cheap" as elsewhere in Europe) software devs to join them in their startup?
NDizzle 10y ago
Forget Norway. Kenya!!! http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/kenya http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/kenya
- J_Darnley 10y ago
  Ha. A real blast from the past.

adrianN 10y ago

It's a beautiful country full of happy people. It's #3 in the Where-to-be-born index [1] and ranks really high when you ask people about general satisfaction with their life [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index [2] http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/norway/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/norway/

superswordfish 10y ago
Programmers (and their children) don't really have to be born in a particular country to have good quality of life. That sort of ranking is more useful if you're poor. There is the "safety net" factor, but again, less important when you have skills that pay well.
- jakub_h 10y ago
  If you can migrate, you don't have to be anything in particular. Otherwise, the place of birth is perhaps the strongest "macroscopic" predictor of your income.
  - superswordfish 10y ago
    Sure, but it's a bit odd, in the context of startup centers, to mention a place's ranking as one of the best places to be born -- most people in a position to relocate themselves to work at a startup are already fairly secure, and their children will be too.
- uola 10y ago
  I agree it's not perfect but it is proxy for life style. The US or UK is great if your want to have a career, work for (or trying to sell to) a big company and be part of something bigger than yourself. Southern Europe is has sunshine, good food and social life. Germany or France is good if you want to work for a family business. The reason the Nordic countries top these list is because they have things like good working conditions, time for yourself, overall decent education systems, relativly low bureaucracy, universal healthcare etc. If you're in the US you can change jobs until you find one where they respect you, pay for extended vacations yourself, move to a good school district, pay lawyers to handle things for you and have private health insurance. What you can't buy is not having to care. That's what the Nordic countries are good at. You can focus your energy on the things that matter. You'll find a disproportionate amount Nordic people in almost all "digital subcultures", from e-sports to systems programming to startups. This is changing in some ways. The Nordic countries are becoming more like the rest of the world with health care systems that are hard to navigate, high private debt and valuing status over substance. But it's still a very good place to live.
- vithlani 10y ago
  How do you figure the safety net bit -- especially with the medical industry? If you are a citizen of a country like Australia, the medical safety net is a life saver. No way will insurance pay for complete cancer treatments.

coldcode 10y ago

It's so dark in the winter, I guess it helps to work in a startup maybe you don't notice as much!

fegu 10y ago
This is the Norwegian secret of success. Food is fuel in Norway, we are not gourmets. We don't have much else to do than work and have sex during the winter.
- wojcech 10y ago
  How much of each? Just interviewed with a Norwegian company
  - chillax 10y ago
    Depends on cracking this code: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUUyCrt7aEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUUyCrt7aEE And enjoying this http://www.orklafoods.no/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/selskaper/orkla-foods/orkla-foods-norge/ofn/aktuelt-og-media/bilder/grandiosa-med-kvalitetsstempel/20060095-1-nor-NO/Grandiosa-med-kvalitetsstempel_billboard.png http://www.orklafoods.no/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/sels...
- digi_owl 10y ago
  The latter saving on heating costs.
- ethbro 10y ago
  What's the typical work schedule in Norway like in the summer? Curious (from a US perspective) how the startup death march applies to seasonal variation. Are substantial vacations / outdoor enjoyment normal when the weather turns nicer?
  - chillax 10y ago
    In a normal company (as in not a startup) you'll work 8 to 16 year round and have at least 5 weeks of vacation, most of them usually to be spent during the common vacation time (Fellesferien) which is in july. If you're lucky you can expect at a good chunk of extra days days of in may when we celebrate different christian days and of course constitution day on the 17th. Oh, and at easter you'll have 3 days of. Most people (at least families) take the whole easter week of. Working in the government you'll often find a concept of summer time, where you work from 8 to 15 from around may to sometime in august. Those hours are to be worked extra during the rest of the year though.

freekh 10y ago

To get "cheap" (or as "cheap" as elsewhere in Europe) software devs to join them in their startup?

NDizzle 10y ago

Forget Norway. Kenya!!! http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/kenya http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/kenya

J_Darnley 10y ago
Ha. A real blast from the past.