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> Could someone who shares the author's worldview try to explain it? Well, I can give you my worldview. Did you see the article "70% of HR managers turn down j

> Could someone who shares the author's worldview try to explain it? Well, I can give you my worldview. Did you see the article "70% of HR managers turn down job candidate based on online reputation?" Here's the HN discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1192996 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1192996 So. I rent a bunch of movies with strongly opinionated themes. I dunno, maybe every Michael Moore movie plus travel documentaries about Cuba. I also rent the entire Star Wars sextilogy and The Godfather Trilogy, which I review on IMDB.com. Some enterprising hacker ties my reviews on IMDB to my anonymized rental record. How many 47 year-old males are there in my neighborhood who watched those exact movies? The hacker publishes his "findings," of course. Now I go looking for a job and someone in HR decides that my political views are too risky, so I don't even get an interview. The author's views are that Netflix can provide the benefits you desire without compromising the privacy I desire. I think the debate should be around whether the authors are correct. If the authors are correct, then the problem isn't the authors preventing the release, the problem is Netflix failing to learn from their prior mistake. If the authors are incorrect, we should simply point that out.

Jun8 17y ago
The important point is that just renting out the movies isn't enough to reveal your identity, you also have to review them (anonymously) on IMDB or some such site. So the solution is simple: If you rent a movie that you would object to being listed in, e.g. your public Facebook profile just don't review it. Is this so hard?
- lt 17y ago
  That's incorrect. His public Star Wars reviews linked him to the Michael Moore's rentals he wished to remain private.
  - Jun8 17y ago
    You're right. How about no public reviews on IMDB then? Or create another different users? I rent many movies from Netflix that people would find "objectionable", this is one reason I don't create any public reviews.
    - raganwald 17y ago
      This would require me to figure out in advance what public data links me to what private-but-anonymized data. We know about the IMDB-Netflix connection because it was pointed out after the fact. What other links are there that I can't predict? What if I can be identified by which nights I stay home to watch a movie? Generalizing, the problem with anonymized data sets is that it is very, VERY hard to say with confidence that the data cannot be connected to a client. That kind of data should not be released without consent.
nkurz 17y ago
Now I go looking for a job and someone in HR decides that my political views are too risky, so I don't even get an interview. It's not ideal, but basing hiring decisions on real information (even if 'private') strikes me as better than using uninformed prejudice. In the example you give, is it better or worse to have the HR person say "Homoiconic? Sounds gay to me!"? I don't see much increased risk in offering a deeper pool of inherently unverifiable information, even if this information might be used badly. The author's views are that Netflix can provide the benefits you desire without compromising the privacy I desire. I think the debate should be around whether the authors are correct. This is a good debate, but for me it's a secondary one. Even if a privacy-safe solution is theoretically possible, I fear the only likely outcome will be that Netflix buries a 'release authorization' somewhere deep within their terms of service and is dissuaded from offering similar data sets in the future. I also think that for my needs 'anonymize and release' is the only feasible solution. While online systems might be better than nothing, the approaches I'm interested in (kNN on GPU's, massively parallel cross-validations) really require local data and full control over data layout. But perhaps there is indeed a solution that works for everyone.
- madair 17y ago
  I'm going to try to paraphrase your concerns that the privacy fears are overblown and we're just losing something valuable, I hope you don't mind, please tell me if I got it wrong: >> It's not ideal, but basing hiring decisions on real information (even if 'private') strikes me as better than using uninformed prejudice. In the example you give, is it better or worse to have the HR person say "Homoiconic? Sounds gay to me!"? I don't see much increased risk in offering a deeper pool of inherently unverifiable information, even if this information might be used badly. Paraphrased: "They have poor information sources for their prejudice now, I don't see what harm better information sources driving their prejudice could do." >> This is a good debate, but for me it's a secondary one. Even if a privacy-safe solution is theoretically possible, I fear the only likely outcome will be that Netflix buries a 'release authorization' somewhere deep within their terms of service and is dissuaded from offering similar data sets in the future. Paraphrased: "The debate on privacy dangers is secondary, if Netflix refuses to release useful data in the future then that's the primary danger" >> I also think that for my needs 'anonymize and release' is the only feasible solution. While online systems might be better than nothing, the approaches I'm interested in (kNN on GPU's, massively parallel cross-validations) really require local data and full control over data layout. But perhaps there is indeed a solution that works for everyone. Paraphrased: "I was working on a project with the data, and the FTC ruling appears to have put a stop to that."
tedunangst 17y ago
Except the Netflix data didn't contain your age or your sex or your neighborhood.
- waterlesscloud 17y ago
  The proposed second contest would have contained some demographic info. Hence the concern.
- philwelch 17y ago
  I imagine you can predict age, sex, and race from the selection of movies.

Jun8 17y ago

The important point is that just renting out the movies isn't enough to reveal your identity, you also have to review them (anonymously) on IMDB or some such site. So the solution is simple: If you rent a movie that you would object to being listed in, e.g. your public Facebook profile just don't review it. Is this so hard?

lt 17y ago
That's incorrect. His public Star Wars reviews linked him to the Michael Moore's rentals he wished to remain private.
- Jun8 17y ago
  You're right. How about no public reviews on IMDB then? Or create another different users? I rent many movies from Netflix that people would find "objectionable", this is one reason I don't create any public reviews.
  - raganwald 17y ago
    This would require me to figure out in advance what public data links me to what private-but-anonymized data. We know about the IMDB-Netflix connection because it was pointed out after the fact. What other links are there that I can't predict? What if I can be identified by which nights I stay home to watch a movie? Generalizing, the problem with anonymized data sets is that it is very, VERY hard to say with confidence that the data cannot be connected to a client. That kind of data should not be released without consent.

nkurz 17y ago

Now I go looking for a job and someone in HR decides that my political views are too risky, so I don't even get an interview. It's not ideal, but basing hiring decisions on real information (even if 'private') strikes me as better than using uninformed prejudice. In the example you give, is it better or worse to have the HR person say "Homoiconic? Sounds gay to me!"? I don't see much increased risk in offering a deeper pool of inherently unverifiable information, even if this information might be used badly. The author's views are that Netflix can provide the benefits you desire without compromising the privacy I desire. I think the debate should be around whether the authors are correct. This is a good debate, but for me it's a secondary one. Even if a privacy-safe solution is theoretically possible, I fear the only likely outcome will be that Netflix buries a 'release authorization' somewhere deep within their terms of service and is dissuaded from offering similar data sets in the future. I also think that for my needs 'anonymize and release' is the only feasible solution. While online systems might be better than nothing, the approaches I'm interested in (kNN on GPU's, massively parallel cross-validations) really require local data and full control over data layout. But perhaps there is indeed a solution that works for everyone.

madair 17y ago
I'm going to try to paraphrase your concerns that the privacy fears are overblown and we're just losing something valuable, I hope you don't mind, please tell me if I got it wrong: >> It's not ideal, but basing hiring decisions on real information (even if 'private') strikes me as better than using uninformed prejudice. In the example you give, is it better or worse to have the HR person say "Homoiconic? Sounds gay to me!"? I don't see much increased risk in offering a deeper pool of inherently unverifiable information, even if this information might be used badly. Paraphrased: "They have poor information sources for their prejudice now, I don't see what harm better information sources driving their prejudice could do." >> This is a good debate, but for me it's a secondary one. Even if a privacy-safe solution is theoretically possible, I fear the only likely outcome will be that Netflix buries a 'release authorization' somewhere deep within their terms of service and is dissuaded from offering similar data sets in the future. Paraphrased: "The debate on privacy dangers is secondary, if Netflix refuses to release useful data in the future then that's the primary danger" >> I also think that for my needs 'anonymize and release' is the only feasible solution. While online systems might be better than nothing, the approaches I'm interested in (kNN on GPU's, massively parallel cross-validations) really require local data and full control over data layout. But perhaps there is indeed a solution that works for everyone. Paraphrased: "I was working on a project with the data, and the FTC ruling appears to have put a stop to that."

tedunangst 17y ago

Except the Netflix data didn't contain your age or your sex or your neighborhood.

waterlesscloud 17y ago
The proposed second contest would have contained some demographic info. Hence the concern.
philwelch 17y ago
I imagine you can predict age, sex, and race from the selection of movies.