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3 shirts, 4 pairs of trousers, meet Japans hardcore minimalists
- jacquesm 10y ago2 shirts and 3 pairs of trousers more than most street people, who are the real minimalists of this world.
- newjersey 10y agoIt is not minimalism if it is not a choice. It is like saying couples with no access to birth control automatically love children. No, this children are likely just accidents that people endure.
- nsxwolf 10y agoI've never met a person that regretted a single one of their children no matter how many they had or how poor they were. If I ever do meet such a person I will gleefully judge them as a bad person.
- logicalDuck 10y agoIt's a surprisingly high percentage... Here's an article about it, apparently the choice to have a child or not apparently plays pretty heavily into how you feel about it. I think it's cruel to judge people for regretting having a child, they already deal with the guilt of that as well as raising the child. There are all sorts of feels and viewpoints towards the world so I think as long as the parent still does their best it's best to respect their feelings rather than judge them as a bad person for having them. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/not-wanting-kids-is-entirely-normal/262367/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/not-wantin...
- jacquesm 10y agoThe only percentage that I can find in that article that lists 'unwanted' is 10, and the study is anything but scientific. For most people birth control is about when they will have their children, not whether or not they want children. Having kids is - in mosts parts of the world - still the norm and not having kids the exception. Maybe that will change over time, it is now socially acceptable not to want children whereas say 200 years ago that meant that you were either destined to become part of some religious organization as a monk, nun or in the clergy.
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- maze-le 10y agoMaybe you never met them, because they won't admit it openly, you know... because some people might judge them as a 'bad person'.
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- jacquesm 10y agoWhat a luxury position to take. So you really can't be a minimalist unless you're wealthy enough to own a whole bunch of stuff but don't. Poor poor people, they can't even be minimalists. > It is like saying couples with no access to birth control automatically love children. That's like saying that couples without access to birth control can't love their children because they can't make a conscious choice. But guess what, most of them do love children. In fact, most people love children, it's rare to find someone that does not. > No, this children are likely just accidents that people endure. No, these children are for the most part desired, and their parents love them, just like those parents that had access to birth control.
- MAGZine 10y agoI'll take a gander at drawing the distinction. Minimalism as an aesthetic is certainly luxurious. It implies that it was well thought out and contains only the necessary elements for a high-standard of living. It doesn't necessarily require you to be very wealthy, it just requires you to own less stuff than you could otherwise. Living with the only pair of clothes that are on your back could indeed be minimalist, though in the case of homeless, it's less minimalism and more survivalism. So yes, minimalism is luxury. It's a conscious decision in the face of people who don't have the time/money/energy to begin thinking decluttering.
- jacquesm 10y agoNo, Minimalism is a fad cooked up by people who were all-out consumers until they realized they didn't need all that crap who now have found permission from their guru (cited in the article) to get rid of their crap. Aka: common sense. Real minimalism is the life of a monk, and is not generally something compatible with functioning in society, and even monks live in places that take care of their needs by offloading some of their burdens on others. A friend of mine - who is a declared minimalist - always wants to borrow my stuff (especially tools), go figure.
- MAGZine 10y agoIf it were common sense, then why is the idea so radical, shocking, and/or controversial?
- eddz 10y agoTraveling often has forced me to adopt this approach. I do not miss the days where I owned much more. Slimming down your possessions to a couple of suitcases worth is liberating, to say the least. Incidentally, I also live in Japan, but most apartments I have visited here are very cluttered.
- chrisseaton 10y agoMinimalism sounds admiral, but how do you stop it limiting your life? For example someone invites you on a hike but you can't fit decent hiking boots in your two suitcases. Or someone invites you to a semi-formal dinner but you can't fit a proper evening jacket in there. You can't even hire boots as they need to broken in.
- zzzzzzzza 10y agoYou don't need hiking boots to go on a hike, do you need an evening jacket to go to a dinner? Could you just make do with one suit? I live in a fairly minimalist style. In my experience you trade one set of experiences for another. Personally I prefer the set of experiences I get, they seem more "authentic".
- chrisseaton 10y agoYou don't need boots for a stroll in the woods, but I'd hate to think 'that looks like a fun mountain to go up, but it wouldn't be responsible as I may break an ankle in these soft shoes'. And you can turn up at people's parties dressed however you want, but they may not invite you again if you disrespect them by ignoring a reasonable dress code. So yes I see you're trading experiences. Where is the line between minimalism and simply being inappropriately dressed and ill-equipped.
- supermatt 10y ago"For traversing steep, rugged terrain you need strong flexible ankles and light, flexible footwear. Doing exercises to strengthen your ankles is better than splinting them in heavy, rigid boots." - Chris Townsend. Author of "The Backpackers Handbook"
- hellofunk 10y agoIf I had a choice, I'd prefer 4 shirts and 3 pairs of trousers.
- lolive 10y agoI find your lack of underwear disturbing.
- kagamine 10y agoIf you have on two pairs of trousers at once, one becomes underwear.
- mikekchar 10y agoIt sounds strange, but I was actually thinking, "What the heck is he doing with 4 pairs of trousers"? I suppose 2 pairs for work and 2 for relaxing if he changes at the end of the day... But then why only 3 shirts? I wonder if this article got slashed to the minimum by the editor because I'm actually really intrigued by what things he finds essential and why. But there is nothing in the article other than to assert that this is a growing trend. Disclosure: When I moved to Japan I gave up all my possessions (either sold or gave away) and at the age of 39 owned only what would fit in my backpack. I've slowly accumulated more, but I keep fighting to keep it as small as possible. I only need 2 pairs of trousers because I work from home ;-)
- Camillo 10y agoIt's not strange, I was thinking that too. Trousers basically don't get dirty from being on your body, all the dirt comes from outside. I can wear the same pair of trousers for weeks before I need to wash them. Shirts, though, may last as little as two or three days if it's hot and wet outside. And summer in Japan is that way. I call shenanigans.
- rjsw 10y agoYou can handwash shirts and hang them up to dry, trousers are more difficult.
- kluck 10y agoIt is possible to legally own a lot of stuff but still be cool if you lose most of it.
- twblalock 10y agoI believe we call it "insurance." Also, "detachment."
- DiabloD3 10y agoIt doesn't seem to be an issue of legality as much as morality. Items don't make the man. The man makes the items.
- kluck 10y agoI meant that the actual problem is the emotional attachment to the things you own, its not the things themselves. That beeing said, it does not matter, how much someone owns, just how attached he/she is to it. The lesser attached the happier, I guess.
- sheraz 10y agoI wish I could adopt this with all the files that litter my google drive, dopbox, and desktop :-/
- struct 10y agoAs much as I like the idea of living with only a few possessions, it strikes me as a constant struggle: where do you put the 50 pack of envelopes you had to buy to send one letter? Are scissors for opening packaging included in his possessions? Nail trimmers? Toiletries? A formal pair of shoes? Do you have to hire all this stuff when you need it, or just keep in a drawer out of sight? And this is what I didn't get about the KonMari method either: a formal suit doesn't "bring me joy" any more than a sink plunger, but both are necessary. How are minimalists able to get away without this cloud of objects following them?
- pjc50 10y agoThis kind of thing is a subset of "intentional living" and "intentional communities", where one's life is lived as some sort of ideological point rather than the most direct route. There's a hint that this might be rather like how some alcoholics have to throw away all their booze and refuse to ever have any in the house as a necessary step to recovering from addiction. People describe having an unhealthy relationship with their "stuff" and then take drastic action to end that relationship almost completely. It's only really possible for single, childless people, but I think it's only easy to get into that bad stuff-relationship if you're living by yourself. Otherwise the stuff-relationship is subordinated to the person-relationship, and some balance is achieved somehow. Possibly through daily minor arguments. For me, it seems unconscionable as I don't have a vivid enough memory to live without artefacts to remind me. What does the minimalist do if you give them a present? Do they feel themselves obliged to throw it away or at least re-gift it? Have they not been through the social ritual of being obliged to wear the sweater / display the item they were given lest it be a snub? Or is that what they're trying to get away from?
- swang 10y agothey probably borrow from neighbors...? i definitely run into this problem. i need that _one_ envelope. do i really want to buy 50 to shove the rest into a drawer?
- mavhc 10y agoSounds like you need some kind of community shop, that sells/loans things you want in the way you want it. You don't need the clothes that society tells you you have to wear at different events, just need 50% of people not to care.
- ensiferum 10y agoI love the concept and have long toyed with the idea of getting rid of stuff even though I already have slimmed down my possessions. Personally I try to avoid purchasing anything that I'm not going to need at least 3 times.
- kakakiki 10y agoI envy them for their minimalism. I am not able to achieve that with years of trying. Items will start piling up unknowingly.
- codev 10y agoI spent six months travelling and working remotely recently, in Japan, Taiwan and Australia. I only had a carry on suitcase and I never missed anything. I'm now back in London and after two weeks I have bought at least three small suitcases worth of new things. It's amazing how quickly things pile up. Once I had the space I started accumulating possessions. I go into shops and come out with things I didn't know I needed.
- kakakiki 10y agothis post has some more images of the minimalist approach - http://www.thisisinsider.com/inside-japans-extremely-minimalist-homes-2016-6 http://www.thisisinsider.com/inside-japans-extremely-minimal...
- sbardle 10y agoThe West is following Japan in so many ways, I suppose because they had their financial crisis before us. Herbivore men, minimalist living, collapsing fertility rates, we are turning Japanese.
- DiabloD3 10y agoYes, and the irony is, that is what destroyed Japanese culture. The only part they got right was getting rid of the items that don't serve you. The part they got wrong was enforcing the behaviors that don't serve you. No true man (yes yes, no true scotsman argument, I'm aware of the fallacy, just stick with me on this) is served by being a "herbivore" or whatever term Japan uses for their men. If you look at productivity and creativity rates among men, men that spend significant time on self improvement (eating right, including meat; exercising, including cardio and weight training; meditation and focusing on the now (instead of the irrelevant bullshit the Universe throws at us on a constant basis)) tend to perform much better at any given task. Japanese men are typically critically devoid of ego, in the sense that they have no personal value, and often commit suicide once they realize they have no value and no one would miss them. Too many Japanese men go to work every day, and celebrate working themselves to death, as if this is a worthy goal. If you go to work every day, you are living your life wrong. Every day, you should be focused on things that work for you, not against you. If you have to drag yourself to work every day, you are working at the wrong job. Japan has made doing this a core principal of their culture, and its killing them, and may actually be one of the driving components behind the lost decade. The reason fertility rates are collapsing, and lots of Japanese women aren't even having sex at all, let alone dating or marrying, is because herbivore men are not sexy. They just aren't. They want big strong men to lead in the bedroom (I'm not even being sexist, there has been studies in Japan about this), and Herbivore men are the exact opposite of that. Genetically, women are predisposed to want to mate with what we, of the western world, have generally called "manly men": beards, muscles, a certain musky scent, a certain way of unapologetically taking what they want, all signs of health and sexual maturity in ancient man. Japanese men show none of these traits, and are androgenous as fuck. I'm not saying half the shit the Silicon Valley culture is doing is any better, but it isn't nearly as toxic as what Japan does sometimes. Don't want the US to turn out like Japan? Go put yourself first, take care of yourself, and enjoy every minute of your life. Do what you find important in life, don't work at a job just because bills need to be paid.
- mhd 10y agoI always preferred the Toast's version of the whole KonMari spiel: "Things like “having chairs” is preventing you from living your best life, and also you should throw away any item of clothing you’re not currently wearing. If it’s not on your skin, you don’t really love it, do you?" http://the-toast.net/2015/02/24/get-rid-clutter-live-abundantly/ http://the-toast.net/2015/02/24/get-rid-clutter-live-abundan...
- kristianc 10y agoOne thing that this article skates over is that many Japanese apartments - especially in Tokyo - are absolutely tiny and space is really at a Premium. In the apartment I stayed in, one of the bay windows had been converted into a wardrobe, my washer/dryer was on the balcony outside, and the 'kitchen' consisted of a basin and a camping stove. I wonder how much of this minimalism is borne out of necessity.
- dcacaac 10y agoI am not really a minimalist intentionally, but I'd guess that at least by amount spent I rank near the very bottom of HN posters. Over the last 3 years I have averaged about $300-400 USD per month, which includes rent and a yearly visa. I don't own a phone and I have no air conditioning, hot water, television, etc. I bike or walk everywhere -- no car or moto. I do own a computer and a 12$ per month internet connection, a set of speakers, a table, a home-made standing desk, and a mattress. My wife / room mate has a few things too, but she is similarly minimal. We share books and colored pencils, but beyond that it's just assorted small items. Even with our relatively small number of possessions though, moving apartments still seems daunting.
- loxs 10y agoWhat country is this in? Your budged is more than or maybe comparable to most people's budget in my home country - Bulgaria. And they certainly don't get to sacrifice hot water and phone. Please note that I'm not saying this in order to mock you. I'm genuinely interested (and practice to some extent, though nowhere close to you) in minimalist living and saving money.
- dcacaac 10y agoIn Cambodia, and yes, while my lifestyle seems minimalistic to me and to most expats here, I still live on about 3-4x what an average Cambodian does. It's also been easier because I live in a bustling local neighborhood with a big market nearby, and Cambodia naturally has some of the best fruits and vegetables in the world. I haven't had to sacrifice at all on food, which is important to me. I do miss the clean air and open space that more affluent cities tend to have though.
- 746F7475 10y agoI don't get this new fad of 'not having a phone'
- kagamine 10y agoI have 2 phones and I would happily have none. My work phone is basically a calendar and email with some time-wasting junk on it (games etc). My personal phone is an mp3 player and a phone, but the damn things drive me crazy because people always want an answer NOW! and the phones need charging every day, at least once. I have now left a programming book in the bathroom because reading up on something useful is a much better use of the now shorter time spent there than playing to get to the next level/high score. Phones now feel oppressive where once they felt amazing. I think of all the great artists that came before us and I wonder if we are 'missing' great music or art from the alternative timeline in which a generation is not wasting time on shooting birds at pigs.
- maga 10y agoAs a tech nomad, minimalism wasn't quite optional in my case, and it's really not that hard to get rid of stuff if you put your mind into it. What I have problem minimizing is the amount of gadgetry. I use a phablet for phone and tablet tasks, and a notebook as a workstation which is connected to extra monitors, storage and such when in an office. While it may not sound as much, I think I could get away with less. If someone was to release a tablet comparable to Surface 4 Pro but smaller and with Thunderbolt (i.e. supporting external graphics) I'd ditch my whole setup in a heartbeat.
- lmm 10y agoThe Surface Book is really nice, especially with the Surface Dock - leave the Dock connected to everything at your desk, use the tablet half on its own when you don't need fancy graphics or keyboard, or the whole thing for notebook-like tasks. A 13.5" tablet isn't quite small enough to take everywhere, but might cover enough of the cases - you'd still want some kind of phone I think but maybe a small one would be enough (or that big samsung smartwatch that has its own cellular connectivity).
- maga 10y agoThanks for the suggestion. Yes, convertibles are probably the way to go in near future. Though the current Surface lineup, both tablet and book, don't fit my requirements mainly due to the lack of Thunderbolt. I need a CUDA enabled graphic card to experiment with neural nets, trying to attach one to a tablet without Thuderbolt might prove futile at the moment. There are some convertibles coming out with Thunderbolt 3 right now, like Acer Switch and Dell XPS, though I'm not sure about their Core M. I guess I'll wait with upgrages until the specs for next Surface tablet become known.
- lmm 10y agoSounds like they intend for CUDA to be usable on the surface book and that it's possibly usable at present with some fiddling, just going by http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfbook-surfdrivers/cuda-support-for-the-surface-book-with-discrete/e23eb530-0a04-4600-9c10-6f9aa35dfc54?page=2 http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfbook-su... .
- sevenless 10y agoKind of emblematic of our Generation Rent. If you're never going to own property, there's no reason to accumulate stuff that will burden your next move... Having so few clothes isn't a good idea, because it's not a full washer load. You're doing more laundry than you need to, and you don't have an alternative if you get them ripped or dirty. It makes more sense to have 10 shirts and 2 pairs of pants. If you can afford it, fine wool and synthetic fabrics are more durable, quick drying and travel friendly than cotton. I (somewhat nomadic; 3 continent moves so far) don't practise any kind of conscious minimalism, but here's my rule: if I haven't used it in a year, out it goes. That means I've thrown out or sold some nice things, but I don't accumulate crap. It also means I'm more careful about buying in the first place. I don't own books; that's what pdfs are for. Travel minimalism is another thing. If you spend lots of time traveling you also learn to pack for one single carry-on bag. I recommend turning sets of clothes and underwear into neat little one-day burritos: https://huckberry.com/journal/posts/how-to-skivvy-roll https://huckberry.com/journal/posts/how-to-skivvy-roll
- vmateixeira 10y ago..because it's not a full washer load You're assuming he washes his clothes on a washing machine
- fhood 10y agoThis is great, except for tools. I can't imagine living without enough tools to accomplish most tasks that I am faced with. This means having everything from a soldering iron and shrink tube, to a table-saw. I just can't imagine wanting to build something and not being able to do it. In fact, I see a tig welder in my future for that very reason. I know quite a few people who are completely reliant on others for something as simple as replacing the wax seal under a toilet. I don't want to join those people.
- shermanyo 10y agoI think a good approach is to buy things if/when you need them, not in advance. Your example of a tig welder, wait until you have a specific project that requires it, and then look at your options. For fixing a toilet seal, only buy the parts you need, don't accumulate a 'spares' draw of parts you can pick up easily the day you need to work on something. Maybe a friend buys a welder you could borrow, before you yourself need to use it. What if you need to unexpectedly fix a different problem? (roofing, tiling, etc...) Could you need another tool instead that you hadn't planned for? I group tools with things like PC hardware, into "under $20", "~$50", "~$100", "~$250" and "~$500". I normally have $500(AUD) set aside for my next project (rather than a collection of tools of similar value), so its always there when I actually need something specific. I've started working on a hardware MIDI controller with my little brother, so spent around $250(AUD) one afternoon on a soldering iron, arduino, book and a few bits and pieces (buttons, pots, LEDs). I avoided huge packs of LEDs, Resistors, etc... and just bought a few I knew I'd need (10k resistors for the buttons, etc...). Anything left over, I'll donate or leave with him. If I don't have another HW project, I'll probably give him the soldering iron and multimeter too. Plus, I'll know who to ask first if I need to borrow one in the future ;) I probably cost myself an additional $100 on this project, but I don't have to pay for a shed, or 'spare room' (like most of my friends have) to store various things, so it probably evens out over time.