9 ms·

GNU Screen v.4.4.0

102 points by lelf 10y ago

steveklabnik 10y ago
For some context, the last few releases of screen were: * 4.3.0: June 2015 * 4.2.1: April 2014 I've heard many people say that they use tmux because screen never gets updated.
- nnutter 10y ago
  I can't tell whether you are trying to claim that it never gets updated or show that that isn't true.
  - steveklabnik 10y ago
    A little of A, a little of B. A new release is a bit newsworthy, since they don't happen super often. But at the same time, "never gets updated" is clearly not true.
    - schwarze_pest 10y ago
      Of course it was true. screen-4.0.3 2008-08-07 screen-4.2.0 2014-04-27
- ohquu 10y ago
  The initial release of tmux was in 2007. The initial release of screen was in 1987. I assume they don't update as frequently because it's relatively stable.
  - steveklabnik 10y ago
    While this is true, screen has not been getting some features that people see as important, like vertical splits. (I mostly hear about this stuff because I still used screen and tons of people are like "why don't you tmux")
    - cm3 10y ago
      I use screen because tmux forces me to explicitly define quick bindings for each binding where I don't want to lift my finger before pressing the letter. So, where I can write `C-a c` in screen without taking my finger off the keyboard, I have to explicitly add `bind-key C-c new-window` in tmux.conf for this. Otherwise it's not as ergonomic as in screen, and now I have to do configure this for each key I use, which granted isn't that many, but still it's a nuisance without a good justification. Tmux is fine for me if I ignore that. But some people miss certain screen features in tmux, so it's fair to mention that as well.
      - ymse 10y ago
        Why don't you just change the prefix key instead? unbind C-b set -g prefix C-a bind-key C-a send-prefix I use C-z FWIW.
        cm3 10y ago
        Nice, that seems to work. Is there a downside to using this? I had to still explicitly add `bind-key C-a previous-window` to emulate screen's `C-a a` to switch between last windows.
        lewiseason 10y ago
        The only real downsites are if you use screen/minicom/etc inside tmux you tend to mash Ctrl-a quite a lot, but if anything that's easier than keeping track of which key goes with which level?
        ymse 10y ago
        The above is how most people first configure tmux, since C-b is just awkward. `bind-key C-a send-prefix` is optional of course, but is used to forward C-a to the active window (beginning-of-line in shell and emacs). How would you do that in screen? The default for `previous-window` is `prefix-p`. Run `tmux list-keys` to see all active bindings.
    - symlinkk 10y ago
- cm3 10y ago
  The churn is fairly low in screen and there's nothing wrong with that, just like xterm doesn't see huge changes but periodic releases with whatever changed. Timed releases of screen might be a good idea.
- SignalsFromBob 10y ago
  Why did you stop? * 4.2.0: Apr 2014 * 4.0.3: Aug 2008 * 4.0.2: Jan 2004 * 3.9.15: Mar 2003 * 3.9.11: Feb 2002 * 3.9.10: Sep 2001 > I've heard many people say that they use tmux because screen never gets updated. Screen releases did slow down in the early 2000s. It was probably considered feature-complete, so I can understand. I hope the existence of tmux will push both projects to improve themselves, preferably without developing featuritis.
  - steveklabnik 10y ago
    I stopped because those are the only ones on the GNU Savanna news section, and I didn't want to get it wrong. It was an unfortunate chance, seeing the rest of that schedule. I share your feelings, I hope it pushes both too.
wprapido 10y ago
a happy screen user! it's a true game changer!
- matt-attack 10y ago
  Yep I've been using screen for many many years. It's one of those tools that entirely changed how I work. Still haven't had sufficient motivation to switch to tmux, since screen just works and I know all of its key bindings very well. FWIW, I've found that CTLR-j is the best choice for the primary escape sequence. As an emacs user CTRL-a was unacceptable as was pretty much CTRL-<everything else>.
  - _kst_ 10y ago
    I use Ctrl-@, also known as Ctrl-Space or the null character. For another screen session that I run within a terminal in my main session (don't ask), I use Ctrl-]. (There's at least one keyboard/terminal setup that doesn't let me type the null character. When I use that, I temporarily change the escape character.)
  - xenophonf 10y ago
    I use backquote (i.e., I have "escape ``" in my screenrc). For some reason this appeals to me more than a control sequence, which I blame on Emacs. For a long time I used Emacs under screen almost exclusively, and I was desperate for a screen command sequence that didn't conflict with Emacs---which ruled out almost all the control key combos. Reaching for the top corner of the keyboard to begin an escape sequence feels pretty natural to me because of my history with Emacs on terminals that don't support the Meta modifier, and backquote doesn't conflict with key bindings for the editing modes I typically use in Emacs. Backquote is used infrequently enough in other contexts for it to interrupt my typing, with the exception command interpolation. (I wish I could say I came up with it on my own, but it was actually a friend of mine who clued me in.)
    - rabidrat 10y ago
      I love backquote for the escape char. It's better than ctrl-anything because it's one less keypress and the location is one of the easiest to hit blindly from a UX perspective (even ESC is more of a reach).
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
roylez 10y ago
I was reluctant to switch to tmux, but screen's never fixing its UTF8 display in hardstatus makes me sad.
- cm3 10y ago
  Is this a known and reported bug? Can I encourage you to report it on the mailing list? The current maintainers are receptive to feedback and relatively quick with patches.
- daveguy 10y ago
  On the plus side tmux is a BSD style license and not GPL. So it is a more free (as in libre) software. Edit: I guess that was obvious considering this gnu screen announcement contains as much (or more) discussion about tmux as screen.
  - goodplay 10y ago
    Unless your usage includes redistribution, GPL/BSD licensing differences have little effect on end-users. Also, the definition of one license is "more free" than the other is completely subjective and is wholly dependent on the perspective of the licensee.
    - daveguy 10y ago
      > Also, the definition of one license is "more free" than the other is completely subjective and is wholly dependent on the perspective of the licensee. That is just false. BSD has fewer restrictions. GPL has more restrictions. No subjective interpretation needed.
      - liw 10y ago
        The BSD license allows the software to be made non-free. The GPL doesn't. To me, this means the GPL wins on freedom. Not everyone agrees. Hence, subjective interpretation. Saying otherwise is just trolling.
clishem 10y ago
One advantage of screen over tmux I found is that it has much better mouse support.
- rcpt 10y ago
  Yup. I can never get tmux configured in a way that lets me use the mouse through a remote session from osx at work and Ubuntu at home.
  - Raticide 10y ago
    I use this every single day and it works perfectly. Are you using the default OSX terminal? If so you should try iTerm2 instead.
    - rcpt 10y ago
      I love iterm2! Here's my setup: Ubuntu 14.04 server is running tmux. I ssh into that server from an osx laptop and attach to the tmux session. After a ton of configuration mouse actions mostly work (copy/paste is always wonky). I also ssh into that server from an Ubuntu laptop. The same configuration I needed to get mouse working for osx is no longer applicable. I've never even thought of writing a screenrc and it's always worked great.
    - eridius 10y ago
      Why iTerm2? OS X Terminal.app supports mouse events just fine on OS X 10.11, and it even has a key shortcut to toggle mouse support on/off for those times when you want to select text instead of sending mouse events.
- aroch 10y ago
  I think mouse support in Tmux is significantly better; it is hidden behind config flags but tmux supports window and screen switching, buffer scrolling (mouse wheel support), copy-on-select, plus you can bind mouse keys as part of functions.
  - 10y ago
SwellJoe 10y ago
I've tried to switch to tmux a few times over the years, but the command line options and keybindings never stick in my brain. My fingers keep wanting to use the screen options. So, I always go back. I probably should just figure out how to make screen do what I want (scrolling back in history is probably the biggest one, and I know I had figured it out in the past...but my current systems don't have it working, I don't think, or I don't remember the incantation to do it). I wish screen worked more like a normal terminal session, is what I'm trying to say, and tmux seems to be closer to that ideal without configuration or learning new ways to do things. But, my muscle memory wants screen.
- sikhnerd 10y ago
  Sounds like you don't use many screen keybindings either? Likely just remapping the default key binding to match screen's in your .tmux.conf gets you 90% of the way there: unbind C-b set -g prefix C-a bind C-a send-prefix fwiw, the shortcut to enter copy mode in tmux and screen is the same C-a [
  - SwellJoe 10y ago
    I'd end up trying to use the wrong bindings on systems that don't have the configuration yet. I've just got too many boxes/VMs (and have too many individual users on each) and haven't gone to the trouble to setup a solution for rc files in a long time (since before my current batch of servers was deployed). Solving that problem is probably a productive use of my time.
    - ifoundthetao 10y ago
      I solved the same situation by making a git repo of my rc files. It's nice. One thing to keep in mind is to have it look for local files/scripts to source too. That way you can keep per-system tweaks out of the global runtime configuration. Also, passwords. Don't put passwords, or anything you don't want leaked in the rc repo. You could have it private, but that's not fool proof.
    - voltagex_ 10y ago
cm3 10y ago
If you want something more modular, you might want to look at dvtwm and abduco. I'm not using them, but others do successfully and it's worth mentioning in this thread.
qwertyuiop924 10y ago
I never really used screen, because all I really want is dtach.
caf 10y ago
It seems like a poor choice not to have the new version include compatibility code allowing it to attach to sessions created under the previous version. This isn't the first time this has happened, either - last time a small patch was bandied around (I think I saw it on the Debian bug tracker) that fixed the problem.
faster 10y ago
I use screen on old servers and have tried to craft a tmux config that works several times, and failed. Ubuntu repos include a nice package called byobu[1] that is a layer on top of tmux (or screen) that mostly makes copy/paste work like screen, while keeping the working scrollback from tmux instead of making it compatible with the usually-broken (in my experience) screen scrollback. Byobu works well for me, so I'm using tmux on most of my servers now but it feels almost like screen. [1] http://byobu.co/ http://byobu.co/
LinuxBender 10y ago
The number one request I get from folks around screen is how to have more than 40 screens in a single screen session. It is a hard coded limit. (MAXWIN 40) Many people recompile it to have more, but I don't want to maintain yet another internal build of a package. Screen is still awesome and I have taught many folks to use it.
- amadeusz 10y ago
  Current default is 100. You can also use maxwin command (for example 'maxwin 200', up to 2048) in your screenrc file to define other value, no need to recompile. However do note that you can't change it in already started screen.
  - LinuxBender 10y ago
    This limit must be due to the older versions we have in CentOS 6. screen-4.0.3-19.el6.x86_64

102 points by lelf 10y ago

For some context, the last few releases of screen were: * 4.3.0: June 2015 * 4.2.1: April 2014 I've heard many people say that they use tmux because screen never gets updated.

nnutter 10y ago
I can't tell whether you are trying to claim that it never gets updated or show that that isn't true.
- steveklabnik 10y ago
  A little of A, a little of B. A new release is a bit newsworthy, since they don't happen super often. But at the same time, "never gets updated" is clearly not true.
  - schwarze_pest 10y ago
    Of course it was true. screen-4.0.3 2008-08-07 screen-4.2.0 2014-04-27
ohquu 10y ago
The initial release of tmux was in 2007. The initial release of screen was in 1987. I assume they don't update as frequently because it's relatively stable.
- steveklabnik 10y ago
  While this is true, screen has not been getting some features that people see as important, like vertical splits. (I mostly hear about this stuff because I still used screen and tons of people are like "why don't you tmux")
  - cm3 10y ago
    I use screen because tmux forces me to explicitly define quick bindings for each binding where I don't want to lift my finger before pressing the letter. So, where I can write `C-a c` in screen without taking my finger off the keyboard, I have to explicitly add `bind-key C-c new-window` in tmux.conf for this. Otherwise it's not as ergonomic as in screen, and now I have to do configure this for each key I use, which granted isn't that many, but still it's a nuisance without a good justification. Tmux is fine for me if I ignore that. But some people miss certain screen features in tmux, so it's fair to mention that as well.
    - ymse 10y ago
      Why don't you just change the prefix key instead? unbind C-b set -g prefix C-a bind-key C-a send-prefix I use C-z FWIW.
      - cm3 10y ago
        Nice, that seems to work. Is there a downside to using this? I had to still explicitly add `bind-key C-a previous-window` to emulate screen's `C-a a` to switch between last windows.
        lewiseason 10y ago
        The only real downsites are if you use screen/minicom/etc inside tmux you tend to mash Ctrl-a quite a lot, but if anything that's easier than keeping track of which key goes with which level?
        ymse 10y ago
        The above is how most people first configure tmux, since C-b is just awkward. `bind-key C-a send-prefix` is optional of course, but is used to forward C-a to the active window (beginning-of-line in shell and emacs). How would you do that in screen? The default for `previous-window` is `prefix-p`. Run `tmux list-keys` to see all active bindings.
  - symlinkk 10y ago
cm3 10y ago
The churn is fairly low in screen and there's nothing wrong with that, just like xterm doesn't see huge changes but periodic releases with whatever changed. Timed releases of screen might be a good idea.
SignalsFromBob 10y ago
Why did you stop? * 4.2.0: Apr 2014 * 4.0.3: Aug 2008 * 4.0.2: Jan 2004 * 3.9.15: Mar 2003 * 3.9.11: Feb 2002 * 3.9.10: Sep 2001 > I've heard many people say that they use tmux because screen never gets updated. Screen releases did slow down in the early 2000s. It was probably considered feature-complete, so I can understand. I hope the existence of tmux will push both projects to improve themselves, preferably without developing featuritis.
- steveklabnik 10y ago
  I stopped because those are the only ones on the GNU Savanna news section, and I didn't want to get it wrong. It was an unfortunate chance, seeing the rest of that schedule. I share your feelings, I hope it pushes both too.

wprapido 10y ago

a happy screen user! it's a true game changer!

matt-attack 10y ago
Yep I've been using screen for many many years. It's one of those tools that entirely changed how I work. Still haven't had sufficient motivation to switch to tmux, since screen just works and I know all of its key bindings very well. FWIW, I've found that CTLR-j is the best choice for the primary escape sequence. As an emacs user CTRL-a was unacceptable as was pretty much CTRL-<everything else>.
- _kst_ 10y ago
  I use Ctrl-@, also known as Ctrl-Space or the null character. For another screen session that I run within a terminal in my main session (don't ask), I use Ctrl-]. (There's at least one keyboard/terminal setup that doesn't let me type the null character. When I use that, I temporarily change the escape character.)
- xenophonf 10y ago
  I use backquote (i.e., I have "escape ``" in my screenrc). For some reason this appeals to me more than a control sequence, which I blame on Emacs. For a long time I used Emacs under screen almost exclusively, and I was desperate for a screen command sequence that didn't conflict with Emacs---which ruled out almost all the control key combos. Reaching for the top corner of the keyboard to begin an escape sequence feels pretty natural to me because of my history with Emacs on terminals that don't support the Meta modifier, and backquote doesn't conflict with key bindings for the editing modes I typically use in Emacs. Backquote is used infrequently enough in other contexts for it to interrupt my typing, with the exception command interpolation. (I wish I could say I came up with it on my own, but it was actually a friend of mine who clued me in.)
  - rabidrat 10y ago
    I love backquote for the escape char. It's better than ctrl-anything because it's one less keypress and the location is one of the easiest to hit blindly from a UX perspective (even ESC is more of a reach).

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

roylez 10y ago

I was reluctant to switch to tmux, but screen's never fixing its UTF8 display in hardstatus makes me sad.

cm3 10y ago
Is this a known and reported bug? Can I encourage you to report it on the mailing list? The current maintainers are receptive to feedback and relatively quick with patches.
daveguy 10y ago
On the plus side tmux is a BSD style license and not GPL. So it is a more free (as in libre) software. Edit: I guess that was obvious considering this gnu screen announcement contains as much (or more) discussion about tmux as screen.
- goodplay 10y ago
  Unless your usage includes redistribution, GPL/BSD licensing differences have little effect on end-users. Also, the definition of one license is "more free" than the other is completely subjective and is wholly dependent on the perspective of the licensee.
  - daveguy 10y ago
    > Also, the definition of one license is "more free" than the other is completely subjective and is wholly dependent on the perspective of the licensee. That is just false. BSD has fewer restrictions. GPL has more restrictions. No subjective interpretation needed.
    - liw 10y ago
      The BSD license allows the software to be made non-free. The GPL doesn't. To me, this means the GPL wins on freedom. Not everyone agrees. Hence, subjective interpretation. Saying otherwise is just trolling.

clishem 10y ago

One advantage of screen over tmux I found is that it has much better mouse support.

rcpt 10y ago
Yup. I can never get tmux configured in a way that lets me use the mouse through a remote session from osx at work and Ubuntu at home.
- Raticide 10y ago
  I use this every single day and it works perfectly. Are you using the default OSX terminal? If so you should try iTerm2 instead.
  - rcpt 10y ago
    I love iterm2! Here's my setup: Ubuntu 14.04 server is running tmux. I ssh into that server from an osx laptop and attach to the tmux session. After a ton of configuration mouse actions mostly work (copy/paste is always wonky). I also ssh into that server from an Ubuntu laptop. The same configuration I needed to get mouse working for osx is no longer applicable. I've never even thought of writing a screenrc and it's always worked great.
  - eridius 10y ago
    Why iTerm2? OS X Terminal.app supports mouse events just fine on OS X 10.11, and it even has a key shortcut to toggle mouse support on/off for those times when you want to select text instead of sending mouse events.
aroch 10y ago
I think mouse support in Tmux is significantly better; it is hidden behind config flags but tmux supports window and screen switching, buffer scrolling (mouse wheel support), copy-on-select, plus you can bind mouse keys as part of functions.
- 10y ago

SwellJoe 10y ago

I've tried to switch to tmux a few times over the years, but the command line options and keybindings never stick in my brain. My fingers keep wanting to use the screen options. So, I always go back. I probably should just figure out how to make screen do what I want (scrolling back in history is probably the biggest one, and I know I had figured it out in the past...but my current systems don't have it working, I don't think, or I don't remember the incantation to do it). I wish screen worked more like a normal terminal session, is what I'm trying to say, and tmux seems to be closer to that ideal without configuration or learning new ways to do things. But, my muscle memory wants screen.

sikhnerd 10y ago
Sounds like you don't use many screen keybindings either? Likely just remapping the default key binding to match screen's in your .tmux.conf gets you 90% of the way there: unbind C-b set -g prefix C-a bind C-a send-prefix fwiw, the shortcut to enter copy mode in tmux and screen is the same C-a [
- SwellJoe 10y ago
  I'd end up trying to use the wrong bindings on systems that don't have the configuration yet. I've just got too many boxes/VMs (and have too many individual users on each) and haven't gone to the trouble to setup a solution for rc files in a long time (since before my current batch of servers was deployed). Solving that problem is probably a productive use of my time.
  - ifoundthetao 10y ago
    I solved the same situation by making a git repo of my rc files. It's nice. One thing to keep in mind is to have it look for local files/scripts to source too. That way you can keep per-system tweaks out of the global runtime configuration. Also, passwords. Don't put passwords, or anything you don't want leaked in the rc repo. You could have it private, but that's not fool proof.
  - voltagex_ 10y ago

cm3 10y ago

If you want something more modular, you might want to look at dvtwm and abduco. I'm not using them, but others do successfully and it's worth mentioning in this thread.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago

I never really used screen, because all I really want is dtach.

caf 10y ago

It seems like a poor choice not to have the new version include compatibility code allowing it to attach to sessions created under the previous version. This isn't the first time this has happened, either - last time a small patch was bandied around (I think I saw it on the Debian bug tracker) that fixed the problem.

faster 10y ago

I use screen on old servers and have tried to craft a tmux config that works several times, and failed. Ubuntu repos include a nice package called byobu[1] that is a layer on top of tmux (or screen) that mostly makes copy/paste work like screen, while keeping the working scrollback from tmux instead of making it compatible with the usually-broken (in my experience) screen scrollback. Byobu works well for me, so I'm using tmux on most of my servers now but it feels almost like screen. [1] http://byobu.co/ http://byobu.co/

LinuxBender 10y ago

The number one request I get from folks around screen is how to have more than 40 screens in a single screen session. It is a hard coded limit. (MAXWIN 40) Many people recompile it to have more, but I don't want to maintain yet another internal build of a package. Screen is still awesome and I have taught many folks to use it.

amadeusz 10y ago
Current default is 100. You can also use maxwin command (for example 'maxwin 200', up to 2048) in your screenrc file to define other value, no need to recompile. However do note that you can't change it in already started screen.
- LinuxBender 10y ago
  This limit must be due to the older versions we have in CentOS 6. screen-4.0.3-19.el6.x86_64