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>Bitcoin is doing the same to fiat currency Oh really? Please do explain why a government would ever allow bitcoin to challenge its currency.

by Trundle 10y ago

paavokoya 10y ago
Just like newspapers "allowed" blogs and news websites to challenge their dominion. History is a long list of things changing and nations falling.
- Trundle 10y ago
  Did you just compare consumer preference in media consumption with a government failing as if the connection is self evident? You're fucking with me right?
- sfifs 10y ago
  Anonymity significantly hinders tax assessment and collection. Removing anonymity to increase taxable base is part of reason for the rapid push towards electronic transactions away from cash even in developing markets (the other parts are cost of securing cash & to reduce middlemen corruption). So governments & financial institutions will certainly embrace blockchain tech as a potential way to possibly reduce transaction paperwork (read eliminate backoffice jobs) but anonymity which underlies bitcoin is unlikely to be supported by governments.
- throwaway2048 10y ago
  newspapers dont have guns
solotronics 10y ago
There are some Caribbean countries considering moving to bitcoin. Barbados is one.
- Trundle 10y ago
  Do you have insider information that's not readily available on the internet? Because as far as I can see they're not.
  - ryan-c 10y ago
    I suspect they're referring to https://www.bitt.com/ https://www.bitt.com/ lobbying the government there, which their CEO was talking about at an event I attended a few months ago.
    - Trundle 10y ago
      Bitt is providing a credit card style phone app there that uses blockchain technology. That's a very very different thing from a government considering using bitcoin instead of their own currency.
      - ryan-c 10y ago
        I agree, just speculating what the other poster was referencing.
- c0nducktr 10y ago
  Source?
jsprogrammer 10y ago
Governments don't need to allow anything; people are free transact and associate as they wish.
- jasode 10y ago
  It's one thing to have a tiny transaction-volume virtual currency like bitcoin circulating without any explicit government laws allowing it or not allowing it. It's quite another thing for paavokoya to make the bold claim that bitcoin will replace government fiat currencies. That won't happen. Government currencies like USA dollars and Euros are backed by courts and police. Bitcoin doesn't have that. Bitcoin usage beyond the trivial can always be suppressed by the government. All it takes is for the government to pass a law that says, "property purchased with bitcoin is null and void". Any non-government crypto-currency exists at the pleasure and amusement of the government. Government has the ultimate power and infuses that power into the fiat currency. That power is spread across tax collectors, courts, and law enforcement. On the other hand, bitcoin can't create its own "Bitcoin Sovereign Island" with its own sympathetic government. Alt-coin enthusiasts overestimate the ability of bitcoin to overthrow government sponsored money.
  - jsprogrammer 10y ago
    Look, maybe in some places what you describe could happen. Not in the US. USA dollars are not "backed by courts and police" (what does that even mean?). Property cannot be null or void, so a government decree as such would be meaningless. >Government has the ultimate power Maybe under some theories, but again, not in the US. In the US, government power is derived exclusively from the people, by the people.
    - jasode 10y ago
      >USA dollars are not "backed by courts and police" (what does that even mean?). >Property cannot be null or void, so a government decree as such would be meaningless. Sorry for writing in shorthand and not making the meaning clearer. It's not the property that's nullified but the transaction of that property. Ok, you agree to buy a car or domain name from a seller for 100 bitcoins. After you pay the 100, the seller keeps the keys/title/domain. You go to court to help recover your "money" -- aka bitcoins, because it was a fraudulent transaction. The court doesn't recognize the transaction because it doesn't recognize bitcoin as legal consideration. Case closed. You then try to go to the police/sheriff to seize "your" property. The police ask for the court order. You don't have one. If the government wants to pass a law stating that bitcoin transactions are not recognized, it can do so. It doesn't have to pass such a law at the moment, because bitcoin transaction volume is trivial. >In the US, government power is derived exclusively from the people, by the people. Did the "power of the people" stop FDR from confiscating gold?[1] Gold was even more entrenched than bitcoin is today. Did the "power of the people" direct the government to take their 1980 dollars and reduce its purchasing power to 1/3rd in 2016?[2] There's a difference between repeating the ideals of "government of the people, by the people, for the people" from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address and the reality of how government actually exercises its power _against_ the people. If Bitcoin activity got so large that it threatened the USA government's power to manipulate its Federal Reserve Notes to pay debt obligations (at least in nominal terms) or inflate the money supply to pay for Social Security & Medicare, it will make all bitcoin transactions null and void by decree. Therefore, I disagree with paavokoya that Bitcoin will make fiat currencies like US Dollars and Euros "obsolete". Bitcoin doesn't have that power because Bitcoin doesn't come with its own courts, police, aircraft carriers, etc -- a.k.a. all the apparatus of government. It's the backing of government that enabled the US Dollar to become a global reserve currency. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 [2]http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1000&year1=1980&year2=2016 http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1000&year1=1980...

>Bitcoin is doing the same to fiat currency Oh really? Please do explain why a government would ever allow bitcoin to challenge its currency.

by Trundle 10y ago

>Bitcoin is doing the same to fiat currency Oh really? Please do explain why a government would ever allow bitcoin to challenge its currency.

paavokoya 10y ago

Just like newspapers "allowed" blogs and news websites to challenge their dominion. History is a long list of things changing and nations falling.

Trundle 10y ago
Did you just compare consumer preference in media consumption with a government failing as if the connection is self evident? You're fucking with me right?
sfifs 10y ago
Anonymity significantly hinders tax assessment and collection. Removing anonymity to increase taxable base is part of reason for the rapid push towards electronic transactions away from cash even in developing markets (the other parts are cost of securing cash & to reduce middlemen corruption). So governments & financial institutions will certainly embrace blockchain tech as a potential way to possibly reduce transaction paperwork (read eliminate backoffice jobs) but anonymity which underlies bitcoin is unlikely to be supported by governments.
throwaway2048 10y ago
newspapers dont have guns

solotronics 10y ago

There are some Caribbean countries considering moving to bitcoin. Barbados is one.

Trundle 10y ago
Do you have insider information that's not readily available on the internet? Because as far as I can see they're not.
- ryan-c 10y ago
  I suspect they're referring to https://www.bitt.com/ https://www.bitt.com/ lobbying the government there, which their CEO was talking about at an event I attended a few months ago.
  - Trundle 10y ago
    Bitt is providing a credit card style phone app there that uses blockchain technology. That's a very very different thing from a government considering using bitcoin instead of their own currency.
    - ryan-c 10y ago
      I agree, just speculating what the other poster was referencing.
c0nducktr 10y ago
Source?

jsprogrammer 10y ago

Governments don't need to allow anything; people are free transact and associate as they wish.

jasode 10y ago
It's one thing to have a tiny transaction-volume virtual currency like bitcoin circulating without any explicit government laws allowing it or not allowing it. It's quite another thing for paavokoya to make the bold claim that bitcoin will replace government fiat currencies. That won't happen. Government currencies like USA dollars and Euros are backed by courts and police. Bitcoin doesn't have that. Bitcoin usage beyond the trivial can always be suppressed by the government. All it takes is for the government to pass a law that says, "property purchased with bitcoin is null and void". Any non-government crypto-currency exists at the pleasure and amusement of the government. Government has the ultimate power and infuses that power into the fiat currency. That power is spread across tax collectors, courts, and law enforcement. On the other hand, bitcoin can't create its own "Bitcoin Sovereign Island" with its own sympathetic government. Alt-coin enthusiasts overestimate the ability of bitcoin to overthrow government sponsored money.
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  Look, maybe in some places what you describe could happen. Not in the US. USA dollars are not "backed by courts and police" (what does that even mean?). Property cannot be null or void, so a government decree as such would be meaningless. >Government has the ultimate power Maybe under some theories, but again, not in the US. In the US, government power is derived exclusively from the people, by the people.
  - jasode 10y ago
    >USA dollars are not "backed by courts and police" (what does that even mean?). >Property cannot be null or void, so a government decree as such would be meaningless. Sorry for writing in shorthand and not making the meaning clearer. It's not the property that's nullified but the transaction of that property. Ok, you agree to buy a car or domain name from a seller for 100 bitcoins. After you pay the 100, the seller keeps the keys/title/domain. You go to court to help recover your "money" -- aka bitcoins, because it was a fraudulent transaction. The court doesn't recognize the transaction because it doesn't recognize bitcoin as legal consideration. Case closed. You then try to go to the police/sheriff to seize "your" property. The police ask for the court order. You don't have one. If the government wants to pass a law stating that bitcoin transactions are not recognized, it can do so. It doesn't have to pass such a law at the moment, because bitcoin transaction volume is trivial. >In the US, government power is derived exclusively from the people, by the people. Did the "power of the people" stop FDR from confiscating gold?[1] Gold was even more entrenched than bitcoin is today. Did the "power of the people" direct the government to take their 1980 dollars and reduce its purchasing power to 1/3rd in 2016?[2] There's a difference between repeating the ideals of "government of the people, by the people, for the people" from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address and the reality of how government actually exercises its power _against_ the people. If Bitcoin activity got so large that it threatened the USA government's power to manipulate its Federal Reserve Notes to pay debt obligations (at least in nominal terms) or inflate the money supply to pay for Social Security & Medicare, it will make all bitcoin transactions null and void by decree. Therefore, I disagree with paavokoya that Bitcoin will make fiat currencies like US Dollars and Euros "obsolete". Bitcoin doesn't have that power because Bitcoin doesn't come with its own courts, police, aircraft carriers, etc -- a.k.a. all the apparatus of government. It's the backing of government that enabled the US Dollar to become a global reserve currency. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 [2]http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1000&year1=1980&year2=2016 http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1000&year1=1980...