4 ms·

Yeah, it's funny how many people look at a country that went from agrarian society to first spacefaring society & 2nd most powerful nation in ~40 years and go

Yeah, it's funny how many people look at a country that went from agrarian society to first spacefaring society & 2nd most powerful nation in ~40 years and go "obviously their economic system was an abject failure". The level of growth experienced by the SU was unsurpassed. In the 50s the US media was fretting over it being "too successful".

kofejnik 10y ago
in the 30s, a lot of European media was reporting about happy life of working people in the USSR (see 'useful idiots')
- crdoconnor 10y ago
  Indeed, the apparent success of the Soviet NHS model, for example, in fighting Typhoid, Typhus and Tuberculosis is partly what led to the structure of the British NHS. Had the Tories had their way in the 40s (and without a clear example of success to point to, they may have), the UK would now have an insurance based "show me the money and we treat you" system - the exact kind which Americans are all apparently very happy with.
wtbob 10y ago
> Yeah, it's funny how many people look at a country that went from agrarian society to first spacefaring society & 2nd most powerful nation in ~40 years and go "obviously their economic system was an abject failure". The U.S. went from agrarian society to the first spacefaring society to make it to the Moon, and became the most powerful nation on earth, in ~40 years. The issue is not that the Soviets didn't develop: it's that they didn't develop as quickly as they could have, had their central planning not retarded their growth rate. Not to mention their utterly murderous regime.
- wz1000 10y ago
  > The issue is not that the Soviets didn't develop: it's that they didn't develop as quickly as they could have, had their central planning not retarded their growth rate Even if centralised planning is doomed to retard growth rates(a hypothesis I consider quite plausible), you cannot reasonably confirm that hypothesis, or the extent of the retardation, using the example of Soviet Russia. There were too many factors involved for you to lay so much of the blame on centralised planning. There were multiple geopolitical and economic factors involved, including the fact that USSR was trying to match the military and diplomatic might of an economy triple its size, fought wasteful wars(Wars are a centralized decision in almost all modern countries) and suffered from variations in the rates of global commodities. These factors alone would most likely decimate a country no matter what its economic system.
- turar 10y ago
  The US benefited from WW2, while USSR had a large amount of their infrastructure destroyed and 20 million of most productive members of society killed in their prime. Yet they still pulled it off.
kgwgk 10y ago
The growth was so incredible that even though the Soviet Union's economy was about half of that in the US in 1961, Samuelson estimated Russia would overtake the US sometime in 1984-1997. It's pretty remarkable that after 30 years consistently growing much faster than the United States, in 1990 the USSR economy was still half as large! http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/01/soviet-growth-american-textbooks.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/01/sov...

kofejnik 10y ago

in the 30s, a lot of European media was reporting about happy life of working people in the USSR (see 'useful idiots')

crdoconnor 10y ago
Indeed, the apparent success of the Soviet NHS model, for example, in fighting Typhoid, Typhus and Tuberculosis is partly what led to the structure of the British NHS. Had the Tories had their way in the 40s (and without a clear example of success to point to, they may have), the UK would now have an insurance based "show me the money and we treat you" system - the exact kind which Americans are all apparently very happy with.

wtbob 10y ago

> Yeah, it's funny how many people look at a country that went from agrarian society to first spacefaring society & 2nd most powerful nation in ~40 years and go "obviously their economic system was an abject failure". The U.S. went from agrarian society to the first spacefaring society to make it to the Moon, and became the most powerful nation on earth, in ~40 years. The issue is not that the Soviets didn't develop: it's that they didn't develop as quickly as they could have, had their central planning not retarded their growth rate. Not to mention their utterly murderous regime.

wz1000 10y ago
> The issue is not that the Soviets didn't develop: it's that they didn't develop as quickly as they could have, had their central planning not retarded their growth rate Even if centralised planning is doomed to retard growth rates(a hypothesis I consider quite plausible), you cannot reasonably confirm that hypothesis, or the extent of the retardation, using the example of Soviet Russia. There were too many factors involved for you to lay so much of the blame on centralised planning. There were multiple geopolitical and economic factors involved, including the fact that USSR was trying to match the military and diplomatic might of an economy triple its size, fought wasteful wars(Wars are a centralized decision in almost all modern countries) and suffered from variations in the rates of global commodities. These factors alone would most likely decimate a country no matter what its economic system.
turar 10y ago
The US benefited from WW2, while USSR had a large amount of their infrastructure destroyed and 20 million of most productive members of society killed in their prime. Yet they still pulled it off.

kgwgk 10y ago

The growth was so incredible that even though the Soviet Union's economy was about half of that in the US in 1961, Samuelson estimated Russia would overtake the US sometime in 1984-1997. It's pretty remarkable that after 30 years consistently growing much faster than the United States, in 1990 the USSR economy was still half as large! http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/01/soviet-growth-american-textbooks.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/01/sov...